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Route-a-pocket from MLCS

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Forum topic by richgreer posted 1238 days ago 2391 views 0 times favorited 28 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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richgreer

4522 posts in 1671 days


1238 days ago

I’m curious about what others think of this new idea for pocket hole joinery

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/ec110301.html

You can see a video demonstration.

This is a direct challenge to the Kreg pocket hole joinery system.

I’m not convinced that this is quicker and easier than Kreg. It might be a little bit stronger, but Kreg joints are plenty strong.

To use this you would have to set up a router with the right bit, at the right depth and add a bushing. Separately, you would set up a drill with the right bit.

It looks like it is a little cheaper than Kreg – must be a coincidence.

What do others think?

-- Rich, Cedar Rapids, IA - I'm a woodworker. I don't create beauty, I reveal it.


28 replies so far

View Lee Barker's profile

Lee Barker

2163 posts in 1446 days


#1 posted 1238 days ago

Better mousetrap? To use it efficiently day to day, one would want to have a router dedicated.

The steeper angle is a good sell regarding the offset issues. The way I dealt with that tendency of the other system is to glue the frame where I want it and add screws later. Then there is no creep.

I’m not sure the additional length of the screw is notably superior to the other system.

I am certain there will be numerous LJs lining up to try this newer-faster-better-cheaper system and then we’ll get some substantive reviews. All I’m throwing out there is airballs.

Kindly,

Lee

-- "...in his brain, which is as dry as the remainder biscuit after a voyage, he hath strange places cramm'd with observation, the which he vents in mangled forms." --Shakespeare, "As You Like It"

View Dandog's profile

Dandog

249 posts in 1370 days


#2 posted 1238 days ago

richgreer I think you could make that jig . I have it in a book I’ll have to make one and post it don’t wast your money give me a day or two I have been wanting to make one.

-- life an woodworking is one big experiment

View Mike Gager's profile

Mike Gager

615 posts in 1863 days


#3 posted 1238 days ago

well their instructions say “Clamp It. Route It . Drill It. Screw It.” to me thats just adding an extra unneeded step

besides its not really cheaper then the kreg stuff when you consider the kreg mini jig for $18 will do pretty much everything you need

View richgreer's profile

richgreer

4522 posts in 1671 days


#4 posted 1238 days ago

Let me be clear – I am not planning to buy one of these. I just wanted to bring this to the attention of my LJ friends because it is a new idea.

IMO – It’s a new idea but I’m not convinced it is a better idea.

-- Rich, Cedar Rapids, IA - I'm a woodworker. I don't create beauty, I reveal it.

View Dandog's profile

Dandog

249 posts in 1370 days


#5 posted 1238 days ago

I think the angle is better for sure.

-- life an woodworking is one big experiment

View Rick  Dennington's profile

Rick Dennington

3272 posts in 1790 days


#6 posted 1238 days ago

I think I will just stay with my Kreg pocket hole jig….. it does everything I want it to do, and what it’s supposed to do….clean and effectively…....besides.....mine’s already paid for.....why spend the money twice to get the same results? I haven’t had a pocket hole to break loose yet......No thanks….....

-- " I started with nothing, and I've still got most of it left".......

View Woodwrecker's profile

Woodwrecker

3559 posts in 2172 days


#7 posted 1238 days ago

I’ll keep my Kreg.
It seems to me to be much easier and just as effective.
Thanks Rich

-- Having fun...Eric

View Jonathan's profile

Jonathan

2603 posts in 1647 days


#8 posted 1238 days ago

Hmm, an interesting concept.With that being said, I’m not going to rush right out and buy one.

A couple of things that seem to make sense and that I like about this are:
-clean edges, with no tearout from a drill bit, which is more than I can say for the Kreg half the time. Not a big deal if you hide your pocketholes, but I sometimes like to use a contrasting color of plug as a design detail.
-the lower angle is nice because of the offset issue, plus being able to use a longer screw.
-predrilling the exit hole can only help with any issues when screwing the two pieces of wood together.

A couple of things I don’t like are:
-the multi-step process
-trying to fill the hole doesn’t seem easily possible, unless I’m thinking about the geometry of the hole incorrectly, so this would seemingly limit it to hidden areas only.

I’ll stick with my Kreg for now, but would at least be interested in seeing this setup in-person.

-- Jonathan, Denver, CO "Constructive criticism is welcome and valued as it gives me new perspectives and helps me to advance as a woodworker."

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

7618 posts in 2648 days


#9 posted 1238 days ago

I think the MLCS jig is better… Someday, maybe I’ll try it (ON Sale).

Till then, I think my Kreg will continue to work just fine…

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3647 posts in 2259 days


#10 posted 1238 days ago

I’m not sure the MLCS product is much of an improvement.

Setup and execution is a little more complicated than the Kreg jigs, but the thing I am leery of is the bottom of the pocket itself.

If you look at one of Kreg’s stepped drill bits, the bit creates a relatively flat surface at the bottom of the pocket, which means the shoulder (or underside of the screw head) of the pocket screw sits relatively flat in the bottom of the pocket hole.

On the MLCS system, the router bit creates a pocket that is rounded on the end. To me, that means it would be much easier to either over-tighten the screw (resulting in a weaker joint), or under-tighten the screw (resulting in a sloppy joint).

I have used a Porter-Cable 552 Production Pocket Cutter on a couple of projects … this machine produces a pocket hole similar to what the MLCS jig does. I don’t like the fact that the flat shoulder of the screw is wedged into a round-bottom hole. When you look at the completed joint, it just doesn’t look right to have a gap under the head of the screw, but it is unavoidable with these router-cut pocket-holes.

I will be sticking with K3 and K4 jigs and a dab of glue in the joint for now!

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View richgreer's profile

richgreer

4522 posts in 1671 days


#11 posted 1238 days ago

This concept has me thinking. What does the bottom of a pocket hole have to be tilted? Couldn’t one use a simple template and bushing and cut a flat bottomed mortise. Then a pilot hole and screw it together.

It seems like you would get, effectively, to the same end result with the tools you already have.

Dandog said we could make a jig like this. The “jig” is really nothing more than a template for a router.

I think I will still use my Kreg.

-- Rich, Cedar Rapids, IA - I'm a woodworker. I don't create beauty, I reveal it.

View Jonathan's profile

Jonathan

2603 posts in 1647 days


#12 posted 1238 days ago

Gerry, Great point, or points, rather.

Your reasoning and logic makes perfect sense.

-- Jonathan, Denver, CO "Constructive criticism is welcome and valued as it gives me new perspectives and helps me to advance as a woodworker."

View Jonathan's profile

Jonathan

2603 posts in 1647 days


#13 posted 1238 days ago

Rich, the immediate issue I can think of with a flat-bottomed hole is that it’ll be difficult to screw-in the screw as you won’t be able to get a screwdriver or drill bit into the hole, unless the hole is extra long… you sort of need the angle because of that. That is the way I’m thinking about it, at least, if I understood you correctly.

-- Jonathan, Denver, CO "Constructive criticism is welcome and valued as it gives me new perspectives and helps me to advance as a woodworker."

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3647 posts in 2259 days


#14 posted 1238 days ago

Rich—What you are talking about is a variation of a fluting jig. That would probably work, but as Jonathan points out, could be hard to get a grip on with a tool to tighten the screw.

My concern for the shape of the bottom of the hole is the flatter it is relative to the angle of the pilot hole for the screw, the better the contact you have between the screws washer and the wood.

Kind of like the importance of a flat shoulder on the tenon you mount into the chuck on your lathe … any gap between the tenon shoulder and the lathe chuck can cause the ‘joint’ to fail.

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View tdv's profile

tdv

1114 posts in 1666 days


#15 posted 1238 days ago

That’s the reason it’s angled Rich to get the driver in. I have a two hole pocket hole jig which I have only used a couple of times I don’t really like it, yes it works ok but Butt joints & screws?? not really & the glue serves no real purpose on end grain. Using my home made mortice jig is just as fast when set up & I feel like I’ve made a proper job, something that’ll be around when I’m gone & be appreciated for some measure of skill. Pocket hole joinery feels amateurish to me abit like flat pack furniture, forgive me all users no offence meant ( I did say I own & have used one)but it seems kinda temporary if you know what I mean. Sometimes traditional is good, just my two pennyworth.

-- God created wood that we may create. Trevor East Yorkshire UK

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