Steel City: Any opinions?

I don’t own any of their tools, but from what I’ve seen, the SC 17” drill press is probably the hottest 17” drill press out now. The rest I haven’t heard much about from anyone.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

Hello Ryan – I should be getting that bandsaw today and I will be doing a review after I have used it for a
while. It does have a lot of nice features left off of most saws. Tension release lever, wheels, light and
ball bearing guides.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

well i don’t have any of their tools but I’ve heard good things. I’ve heard a lot that it basically has the quality of the older Delta tools. but other than that i don’t know much.

Steal City was, up and till recently, located in my town (Murfreesboro TN) so I got to know the Box’s, father and Son owners, and they seem like really good people. All their tools seem well built as well as built to last
I’ve got their 10” 3hp full cabinet saw and have been happy with it. It could use a little more fine tuning but that is on me. I’ve had it for 6 or 8 months and so far it has done a good job. I really enjoy having the 52” fence. It’s a well built Bessemer clone. That being said I will be buying a SawStop as soon as I can scrounge up the money; it is a phenomenal saw along with the unbelievable safety break.
. I have a Grizzly 8” jointer that I’m very happy with. It is the best bang-for-your-buck jointer on the market but the Steel City 8” is defiantly a better over all tool

Steve Box (owner) worked for Delta (and Powermatic I think) for years. he know what it takes to make good tools.

Personally I think the SawStop is way more than most hobbyist woodworkers actually have to have. The same goes for cabinet saws. Sometimes I think alot of people get hung up on the hey look what tool I have. I’m more impressed with what people can do, rather than what expensive tools they have. Not everyone has the luxury of haveing a shop that looks like a commercial cabinet shop. Especially nowdays when imported furniture and cabinets are so cheap that you can’t possibly compete. Until things get better, if they ever do, which I highly doubt at this point, I’ll just keep my older made in the USA Delta Contractors table saw, it works just fine.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

Thanks for the feedback guys, keep it coming :)

Woodchuck, I both agree and disagree with your statement above. The fact is that for some it is not about “look what tool I have”, but more of a “need” thing. Now, being as WW’ing isn’t my “hobby”, I realize I may not strictly qualify as one of the people you mentioned above, but: I have a friend who is a “hobbiest”. However, his hobby involves ripping 12/4 white oak and dealing with some heavy exotics. In his case, he needs every one of those three horses the cabinet saw gives him, and he could probably use 5 :) Also the wieght is a big factor for some of us as well. We need a saw that won’t shift or tip when dealing with big/heavy/long stock.

Do I think that everyone needs a cabinet saw? Nope. In fact, that cherry cabinet I built at the Toronto show this past weekend that Ms. Debbie posted was done on a portable jobsite saw (Thats what they provided….difficult, but not impossible to do)....but some do need the advantages offered by a big saw.

Just my .02, and worth exactly the price paid for it :)

-- If you can't set a good example, at least serve as a horrible warning... www.rarewoodcreations.com

My impression without owning any is that their tools work well and are designed well.

I am not convinces that they are the best for the money in each of these categories. I think that rather than thinking about buying everything from the same company you should make your decision machine by machine. For example, I think Steel City makes the best mortise machine out there as well as a great drill press. Spending this much money requires great thought, research, and of course good luck.

-- making sawdust....

Ryan, I’ve never in 13 years came even close to tiping my Contractors table saw, if I had I was clearly doing something horribly wrong. As far as power goes, if you have the correct amount of power that the motor asks for going to the saw it will cut just about anything with a good blade. Thats where most people make the mistake with a Contractors saw, they have it pluged into a 110 outlet that is on a circuit that supplies other outlets and or lights and are starveing the motor for power and then think they need a bigger saw because someone says they do. In some cases yes, some people need a cabinet saw if they are running it 8 hours a day or more, but I’d say in most cases in a hobby shop they don’t, and it’s more of a bragging thing just to keep up with the next guy, and the tool manufacturers feed on it. I wouldn’t be a bit suprised if some of the posts aren’t from some of them like a wolf in sheeps clothing trying to keep the tool market alive and money in their pockets. With the money I’ve saved by not buying a cabinet saw that I don’t need, I was able to set my shop up for dust collection and air filtration, which is alot more important to me than tool braging rights.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

Ryan, I go by the principle that I buy the best tool on the market at the time I need it for the amount I am willing to pay. I am in the market for a new table saw and jointer. I will not probably look too closely at the Saw Stop because its inital investment is more than I am willng to pay. There are good tools, that are highly rated that fit more in line with what I want to spend. I will spend more money for tools that I feel are worth the higher price. For example, I purchaced the General Hollow chisel morticer not too long ago. It was probably twice the cost of the Delta, Jet and Steel City machines but I feel it was worth the difference in price (it was the highest rated machine at the time and was twice the weight.) Look at the quality and ratings of the machine before the brand name.

I do own a Steel City 1.5 hp dust collector. I do like it. It does its job very well and would buy it again. I do wish the power switch was higher but that can be solved with a remote switch.

-- Greg - Charles Town, WV

Woodchuck, I do see where you are coming from….but trust me. There are things a contractor saw just cannot do. When I first turned pro, I was using a contractor model, and it served me well as long as I didn’t “push it”....and due to my getting fed up and selling my cabinet saw, I am currently working on a contractor saw once again (yes, it’s wired to 220, but contrary to popular belief, a saw wired to 220 does not make more power than a 110, it is just miore efficient (1/2 the amps) A saw cannot draw “less” power than it needs because something else is plugged in…electricity doesn’t work that way. If there is too much draw on a circuit, the breaker will blow. If a 1 1/2 HP saw draws 15 amps, it will draw 15 amps regardless of what else is plugged in…but it will trip the breaker if something else is plugged in) It will not do things a larger more powerful cabinet saw will do however. Sure, you can cheat a little by using thin-kerf blades and such, but in the real world, compromise can cost you money and time. A thin kerf blade will not cut as smooth as a full kerf, and when you get into spinning large dado or molder heads, the need for extra power quickly becomes apparent. As for the weight issue, if my friend sat one of those 3X12X12 monsters he works with on the wing of a contractor saw, it would tip….it probably weighs as much as the saw :)

Mott: I agreee with what you are saying, but I kind of have to stick with one brand for stationary (TBD :) ), one brand for hand and small power ( now Bosch), one for hand tools (Veritas)....... If no one ever saw my shop but me, I’d probably have 15 different brands in there, but it’s a marketing thing.

-- If you can't set a good example, at least serve as a horrible warning... www.rarewoodcreations.com

Ryan, I’m just curious – what tools do you have currently and why are you looking to replace them? What issues have you experienced with your current tools?

For what it’s worth, I purchased a Jet left tilt cabinet saw last fall. Did I truly NEED 3HP and the heft of a cabinet saw? Perhaps not. Have I enjoyed it -ABSOLUTELY. Have I regretted the purchase – not for a minute. I did get a great price at a Jet outlet center. Supposedly scratch and dent, but my saw had never been run or hooked up. The box had a forklift dent in it, but not a mark on the saw.

-- CutNRun - So much wood, so many trails, so little time

Ya, I know, I’m just a loser hobbyist thats been doing it for almost 30 years and don’t have any experience giveing demonstrations at woodworking shows. I clearly don’t know what I’m talking about. Excuse me for takeing up one of the chairs in your audience. Obviously I’m not worthy. One last note, if your as good as you think you are, why are you asking which brand of tools to buy ? ( Not that you would listen ) In all your infinate wisdom you should know. Give me a freakin break.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

Unless you are in desperate need to change out something right away for some reason, I would start watching cabinet/commercial shop auctions and specialized classifieds and pick up those types of machines as they become available. That is basically the way I have outfitted/upgraded my shop over the last several years and even though I am a hobbiest I have ended up with a shop that is better than most all of the small and mid-size cabinet shops in our area…but that wasn’t the goal I had in mind when I was buying machinery. Instead I was looking at price, features, and capacity for the work I do now and for future work/projects, and the price to value was much better in the used larger machinery. Machinery is always for sale and unfortunately cabinet shops, furniture factories and pattern shops go out of business all the time. Granted, it takes some patience and the investment of some time to read the auction bills and various classifieds but in the long run it pays off. I don’t understand the marketing issue as it relates to wanting only one line of equipment in your shop unless you are seeking a sponsorship or are trying to sell that line of tools on the side. Actually as a Canadian shouldn’t you be outfitting your shop with General anyway?

-- Rich, Madison WI

Ya, I know, I’m just a loser hobbyist thats been doing it for almost 30 years and don’t have any experience giveing demonstrations at woodworking shows. I clearly don’t know what I’m talking about. Excuse me for takeing up one of the chairs in your audience. Obviously I’m not worthy. One last note, if your as good as you think you are, why are you asking which brand of tools to buy ? ( Not that you would listen ) In all your infinate wisdom you should know. Give me a freakin break.

Ouch! :(
Woodchuck, I’m sincerely sorry if I’ve offended you in some way, that wasn’t my intent. I also said that I agree with you and could see your point-of-view that not everyone needed a cabinet saw….. I’m sorry you can’t conversely see mine, that some do.

As far as my motivation for asking which brand, I wasn’t in fact asking “which brand”, I was simply asking for opinions on one particular brand: Steel City. The reason I asked specifically about SC is because they are relatively new to the market, and therefore there is not alot of info out there. I was hoping to get some inside info from those that have bought that brand…I value the input from my fellow LJ’s, and believe me, I would listen. I don’t know where you got the impression that I think I “know it all”, far,,,FAR from it….I’m learning everyday. I just happen to know a thing or two about electrical loads and draws. I’m sorry if my sharing that knowledge and clarifying a misconception was insulting to you somehow.

Now that I’ve stated my reason for starting this thread, I noticed that your comments have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand (Steel City), and can’t help but wonder why you posted when your only obvious message was that hobbiests who buy cabinet saws only do it to “show off ”, and that a contractor saw is “good enough for the work you’ve done for 30 years, so it’s good enough for annyone, and any purpose”...is this your only point?

I didn’t start the thread expecting a debate on whether a certain type of saw is required, so forgive me if I don’t enter further into that discussion within this thread. However, I would definitely be interested in discussing it further in another thread on that topic if you’d like to start one :)

Now, back on topic: Do you have some experience pertaining to Steel City that you could share? If you do I would sincerely appreciate hearing it.

Ryan.

-- If you can't set a good example, at least serve as a horrible warning... www.rarewoodcreations.com

I’ve been intrigued by SteeL City’s use of granite in place of cast iron for the saw tables, and I was delighted to see quality tools being made in the USA again. However, I’m probably not going to buy the brand for a completely unrelated reason – their marketing. It may seem trivial, but I thought that their “By Tool Guys, For Tool Guys” slogan was just plain stupid. So I called the company and talked to thier marketing director, who was about as bright as a 60 watt bulb. Normally that kind of stuff doesn’t bother me, but when he said that women were “only 15%” of the market, I wondered a bit – I mean 15% is a happy little chunk of demographic, don’t you think? PLEASE NOTE, though – they DID change their tag line, which gives them big points in my book. But now that Woodchuck sings the praises of their drill press, I might have to think again. A floor model drill press is my next big purchase. (FYI – I’ve been very, very happy with the General cabinet saw I bought second hand. It is one sweet, accurate machine. I could never get by with a contractors saw.)

Sorry for the little rant there.

-- "No Board Left Behind"

The bottom line is that there is no perfect machine in any category… Each has its benefit depending on the user’s preference. The trick is to get the best one that fits your need and budget. We can debate forever what car is best, and never agree on which one is… Most of us can agree though that the YUGO was not a good car.. Whatever you do, don’t buy a YUGO drill press…

Good luck in your choice… and to the rest of you… lets agree to disagree…

-- making sawdust....

Hi Ryan
I got the 18” Steel City bandsaw after looking at all the others I could find. I needed to re-saw 10” X 2” X 39” Hard Maple it was the only saw that looked like it could do this for less than $1200.00. I even got the rebate check for $100.00 after sending it in 17 days after it expired. The heavy duty feel of the saw and the redundancy of the design is outstanding. I’ve had it for over a year it’s done every thing vary well.

”Ya, I know, I’m just a loser hobbyist thats been doing it for almost 30 years”

Boy, I’m glad you said it and not me.

My signature says it all.

-- It's better to have people think you're stupid rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Ryan, my comments about the SawStop and cabinet table saws where directed more towards Dayton, the person that brought up the subject about buying a SawStop. Why you jumped into it I have no idea. If you notice the first reply to this thread was mine and I stated that I do not own any SC equipment, but I do know what the word on the street is on their 17” drill press. Take it, leave it, I don’t care. Thats all I got to say.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

Why I jumped on it? I dunno….’cause A: It was incorrect, and B: it was in my thread, so I assumed it was a statement relating to the thread. Maybe you should just send Dayton a PM next time you wish to berate him….might save some confusion :)

-- If you can't set a good example, at least serve as a horrible warning... www.rarewoodcreations.com

Ryan, I agree with what most have said, there is not one brand that makes the best everything. But if you have to have all one brand for marketing purposes as you stated, I think Steel City will be a good choice. I don’t own any SC myself, but I have heard lots of good things. I saw some tools of their tools at the Woodworking show in St. Louis. I was very impressed with their bandsaw and drill press.
If I were going to pick ONE brand, I would make a list of most important tools to me first, rank them. Then compare brands on the top two or three tools. Other brand to consider being your one stop shopping source would be Powermatic, Grizzly, or Jet.
I hope this helps and good luck.

Lakey, I don’t think Steel City is made in the USA, their tools are made by Orion which are made overseas. They make some of Craftsmans Proffesional line of machines also. Some of the Deltas X series line of machines if not all, I’m not sure, the parts are made overseas but are assembled in the USA.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

Hi Ryan I am a new to the steel city world myself.I really did not underwstand another company coming out and trying to compete with the other standard big brands but a funny thing happened.I decided I wanted a new table saw and found on Craig’s list a steel city 10” titanium,3hp 50” fence,left tilt,brand new still on the skid,part of an insurance settlement for $1200 and couldn’t pass it up.It appears to be a really nice saw with beefed up trunions and other stuff not easily seen and all in all maybe a better saw than the unisaw.
I have been remodeling the shop and haven’t even gotten around to assembling it yet that is my chore for tomorrow.
But I have gone over it pretty well and it is just a little bit heavier duty than the others .At that price I am quite certain it will be a great deal for me.
The saw stop is a great saw but it is really hard for me to spend that much on a table saw,especially one that is so new with no record of long term performance.The safety feature is wonderful and maybe in time it will become the standard.
Anyway I will post how happy or unhappy I am with the Steel City table saw in a few days but really let’s me honest about it they(the major brands) are all really good machines with minor differences other than Saw Stop.I have had 2 Powermatics throught the years and they are great saws but I truly don’t believe that they are worth the difference in the money.Remember they are now just part of Jet and I dnow lots of folks will not agree but I just don’t find their stuff worth the difference in price.
As for a jointer I have had about all of them and until you get up in the Oliver range I don’t know how any of them sell anymore against the Grizzly it’s half the price and a great tool.I’m not a real Grizzly fan and only have the Jointer and dust collector and they are great,cost a lot less than everyone else and get top reviews by any magazine that rates them.
Good luck in your pursuit of machines none of them will be as good as the quality of the work I have seen of yours.Your work is indeed absolutely wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cowboy

Ryan Shervill posts in another thread ( Holy cow. Woodchuck, when you started up in my thread about Steel City, I honsetly thought I had embarrased you a little by pointing out your ignorance of basic electrical function ) See ? this is what I don’t get. What was it that I posted in here about electrical function that I was IGNORANT about ? Also if your cutting something so thick that a Contractors table saw can’t handle it, theres allways the option of running it through a bandsaw, which is probably what you should be useing anyway no matter how big of a table saw you have. It would be alot safer. Before you call me ignorant I’d apreciate it if you knew what your talking about.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

Wow, “interesting” thread. haha. How about a little, “To each their own” and call it a day? Anyways, I’ve only had experience with the SC Mortiser. I should say that the only comparison I have is with a no name piece of junk mortiser (I believe Harbor Freight, could be wrong). I used it when making a plant stand in someone else’s shop. It worked great for me. Easy alignment and depth set up. I was using Red Oak and had very little clean up work afterhand. Beats my drill press and chisel setup for sure.

I would really like to test drive the granite tops on a few of their tools. I’m bad about treating my cast iron tops so the no maintanence granite could be great for me.

-- Jeff, South Carolina

I can’t believe I’m reentering this conversation…...

OK, one post to answer your question “What was it that I posted in here about electrical function that I was ignorant about”

Before I answer that, please let me clarify that I meant “ignorant” in it’s proper context. To be ignorant means “to be without knowledge”, it is not a slight or insult, but merely a usefull word. Unfortunately, many people are ignorant when it comes to the meaning of “ignorant” :)

OK…you posted this up a dozen posts or so:
Thats where most people make the mistake with a Contractors saw, they have it pluged into a 110 outlet that is on a circuit that supplies other outlets and or lights and are starveing the motor for power and then think they need a bigger saw because someone says they do.

I responded with the factual information to clear your misconception by stating:

contrary to popular belief, ........A saw cannot draw “less” power than it needs because something else is plugged in…electricity doesn’t work that way. If there is too much draw on a circuit, the breaker will blow. If a 1 1/2 HP saw draws 15 amps, it will draw 15 amps regardless of what else is plugged in…but it will trip the breaker if something else is plugged in)

Thats what I meant, and no insult was intended.

Ryan

-- If you can't set a good example, at least serve as a horrible warning... www.rarewoodcreations.com

Ryan, I think your turning things all around here electrical wise. I know exactly what I said. And the ignorant comment, well that was just plain uncalled for, I don’t care what the excuse is your trying to feed me. Your turning that all around too. Once again, your arogance sticks out like a sore thumb. Ofcourse I didn’t mean that in a bad way.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

According to your theory the amps are the same at startup as they are when the saw is up and running, and they stay the same even when givein a load, such as running a oak 2” x 4” through the saw . Sorry, but I don’t think so. Try again.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

The power drawn through a circuit is directly proportional to the load that is being created on that circuit.

A motor will draw a different current at the point of start-up (maybe up to 10 times or more) for a millisecond or two than it will whilst it is running in it quiescent state (not under load). As the load is increased (cutting lumber) then the current drawn will increase in proportion to that load.

As has already been correctly stated, any other electrical items on that circuit (lights, heaters etcetera) will also add to the load of the circuit, ultimately damaging the circuit if the circuits rating is increased beyond it rating (cable burnout or fuze/CB popping).

Normally a small motor used for an operation continuously, in which it approaches its maximum capacity will have a higher failure rate than a larger motor (HP) of equivalent build quality. Therefore heavier work (thick hard wood) with a larger motor is advisable and safer (not trying to force the material through the system).

With regard to 110V Vs 220V there is no real advantage, with regard to efficiency both will produce the necessary power (up to the limit of there respective circuit), however the 220V circuit can use much lighter (weight and gauge) cables as the current drawn through them is less than that through a 110V system.

Hence the national grid of power lines (across the country/world) with there 50,000V ++ and megawatts of power on relatively narrow gauge cables.

-- Tony - All things are possible, just some things are more difficult than others! - SKYPE: Heron2005 (http://www.poydatjatuolit.fi)

You got it Tony. My point at the start was if you run a 110 breaker directly to a single outlet box and end it there so there is nothing else on that circuit, your more likely to have better performance than a circuit with many outlets and or lights on it, and extend the life of the table saws motor like you pointed out, and there would be no need to switch it to 220, provided your useing the correct breaker size and wireing on that 110 circuit. Atleast thats what I’ve learned. No matter if you use 110 or 220 the motor will draw the same amount of amps, it’s just at 220 the amps are split in two. A couple years ago I had a electrician rewire my shop and we went ahead and ran seperate 220 circuits for my table saw, air compressor, and the dust collector I had to because it won’t run on 110. The table saw and air compressor might have been overkill but while we were at it thats what we did. When I ran the saw before rewireing the shop it was hooked up to a 110 circuit that had several other things on it and occassionally, not alot, but when I pushed it, it would dim the lights or sometimes trip the breaker in the main electrical panel. Now it’s like a whole different saw.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

Woodchuck

Sorry but you have not quite grasped it all. The longevity of the motor is a function of how heavily you load the motor (how much wood you cut and how often), it has nothing to do with whatever else is on the circuit. Overloading the motor and overloading the circuit are two totally different functions.

Switching between 110V and 220V circuits can only be achieved if you have the appropriate equipment. 220V is a more efficient and environmentally friendly solution to 110V, just as 3 phase is better than single phase. Less energy is lost in the conversion, you also need less raw materials (copper wire), therefore it is cheaper.

Reading on, I am not sure if I am miss reading what you have written, or you are “winding” me up. You cannot run a 110 V piece of equipment on 220V or vice versa – It will either BLOW UP (220V in to 110V equipment) or the equipment (110V into 220V equipment) will run so slowly and draw so much current it will catch fire (exception to this is Dual voltage equipments via transformer).

At all times use the correct voltage, phase and frequency as stated on the equipment label or badge, deviate from this and be warned it could be extremely dangerous or at the least expensive.

-- Tony - All things are possible, just some things are more difficult than others! - SKYPE: Heron2005 (http://www.poydatjatuolit.fi)

Tony, I’m not trying to wind you up at all. My point on the longevity of the table saw motor was I was running the motor short on power because I was running it on a inadequit 110 circuit, I felt I was shortening the life of the motor. For instance, when turning the saw on or makeing a heavy cut it would dim one of the shop lights for a split second. The breaker going to the shop in the main panel in the house would sometimes trip, not the reset on the motor itself. The dust collector I never tried to run it on 110, the purchase of the dust collector was one of the main reasons I had the shop rewired. So I could install a service panel in the shop and have 220 for the dust collector. The shop I have is detached from the house and there never was a service panel in it, just a junction box with 220 wireing comeing to it then split into 2 seperate 110 circuits. The Contractors table saw is 110/220 capable, and so is the air compressor, The dust collector can only be run on 220. Are we square ?

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

Wow this is always such an easy going, congenial website but ol’ Woodchuck you are doing your darndest to get everyone wound up aren’t you? I know this won’t do any good, because if it would you would have already dropped it, but I can’t let it go, maybe it’s because I’m not as mature as most of the other members.

I don’t know Ryan from Adam but nothing in his posts has ever comes close to being arrogant or confrontational, you are the ONLY member on this forum, or even the entire site, that is being arrogant and confrontational. How high an mighty are you to declare that no one needs a certain type of equipment under any circumstance and then turn around and call Ryan arrogant because, after examining your opinion, he DARES question it?
Tony did “get it” but you still did not. I’m sure you’ll disagree, but it is clear to everyone here, by your response, that you did not.

You said earlier “I’d appreciate it if you knew what your talking about” I, and nearly everyone else on this forum, would like to ask you to do the same, and in response to this quote “Once again, your arrogance sticks out like a sore thumb” We’d like to say that Your Ignorance sticks out like a sore thumb.

Miket’s quote could not be more spot on

Let the retaliations fly
I’m done

Dayton – I do hope when you said “I’m done” you didn’t mean you’re “done” with Lumberjocks. Obviously we need as many rational members as possible. So please don’t go.

-- "No Board Left Behind"

Here we go again, someone trying to ruffle my feathers. Ryan called me ignorant, then doesn’t know what he is talking about with electricity and now you Dayton want to start some crap with me ? Buzz off. Take Lakey with ya if thats all the both of you are here for. I’m trying to have a civil conversation here with Tony. Whats next ? My brother is bigger than yours ? Growup.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?

Bye, now!

-- North Texas

Well I see the bullshit in here never ends. It appears someone is posting with my name, but if you notice, the one in 1957 is a capital I. They also sent me a virus in my e:mail this morning. Judgeing from the properties of the E:mail I have a good idea who it is. All I can say is what a spineless loser.

-- If you can't find the time to do it properly, how will you find the time to fix it ?