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dust collection size ???

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Forum topic by jimbo87 posted 11-27-2017 05:36 PM 341 views 0 times favorited 7 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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jimbo87

3 posts in 21 days


11-27-2017 05:36 PM

Hello, first post, I will try not to seem to uneducated :-)

I am looking at building a shop and have serious questions about what dust collection i actually need. I read a lot from Bill Pence and have youtubed for days but I am still confused.

I will have the following tools in a 25’ x25’ workshop: Sawstop PCS, 8” Grizzly jointer, 15/20” Grizzly
planer, Supermax belt sander, Laguna bandsaw, drill press, miter station(similar to Jay Bates’ if you you tube…) , an edge sander, disk sander and a lathe.

I included a sketch of the lay out( feel free to make suggestions on that as well), if you have any questions about whats what on the layout just ask. I plan to put the dust collection in a separate room and just vent outside after a cyclone.

The questions are:
1 What brand is actually the best cyclone?
2 What horsepower is necessary for what I want to run and be clean.( this is the big question for e at this point)
3 Any issue with the collection being in a separate room? (space is the minor reason to try this, the major reason is just noise).

Thank you for taking a look at this and I look forward to hearing your feedback.


7 replies so far

View AandCstyle's profile

AandCstyle

2905 posts in 2095 days


#1 posted 11-27-2017 10:55 PM

Jimbo, dust collection will be best if it is located as close to the center of the “action” as possible to keep the runs as short as possible. Therefore, you might consider switching the DC room and the rest room if it hasn’t been cast in stone yet. If you vent the DC outside, you will pull cold or hot air into your shop which might be a problem if you live in a less than temperate climate. I don’t think there is a “best” cyclone brand, but I chose Oneida because of the excellent service they have given me over the years. They will also design a DC system for you, including the required HP if you email them your proposed layout, possibly they will suggest a different floor plan for the machines. If the DC is in an enclosed space, that space will get very warm if you run it for prolonged periods. HTH

-- Art

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sawdustdad

335 posts in 723 days


#2 posted 11-28-2017 12:11 AM

I’ve looked at cyclones to replace my 20 year old Grizzly 2 hp collector but it works so well that I can’t justify it. I have blast gates at each tool and open them as needed. The TS stays open at all times. Even with my 20 inch planer 25 feet from the collector, I have no issues. (planer dumps into a 30 gal can with a cyclone lid, then down the trunk line to the DC).

I think any 2hp cyclone would work fine for your use. Just keep line losses to a minimum. I ran a 6 inch metal trunk line down the length of the shop. 4 and 5 inch drops to the tools. People cheap out on the duct work, using 4 inch PVC, then need more collector to get it to work.

That’s a Performax sander on top of the Grizzly planer (saves floor space) BTW.

I have shop vacs on my bandsaw, resaw and miter saw station. Just haven’t had time to run the DC to them yet.

-- Murphy's Carpentry Corollary #3: Half of all boards cut to a specific length will be too short.

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jimbo87

3 posts in 21 days


#3 posted 11-28-2017 01:18 AM



Jimbo, dust collection will be best if it is located as close to the center of the “action” as possible to keep the runs as short as possible. Therefore, you might consider switching the DC room and the rest room if it hasn t been cast in stone yet. If you vent the DC outside, you will pull cold or hot air into your shop which might be a problem if you live in a less than temperate climate. I don t think there is a “best” cyclone brand, but I chose Oneida because of the excellent service they have given me over the years. They will also design a DC system for you, including the required HP if you email them your proposed layout, possibly they will suggest a different floor plan for the machines. If the DC is in an enclosed space, that space will get very warm if you run it for prolonged periods. HTH

- AandCstyle

The only conection to the DC room and the main room would be a sealed pipe thru the wall, would this still be a concern for air conditioning?

Switching the rooms around seems like the right idea. This is still in the planing phase so no issues to do the ol’ swap a roo

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jimbo87

3 posts in 21 days


#4 posted 11-28-2017 01:21 AM



I ve looked at cyclones to replace my 20 year old Grizzly 2 hp collector but it works so well that I can t justify it. I have blast gates at each tool and open them as needed. The TS stays open at all times. Even with my 20 inch planer 25 feet from the collector, I have no issues. (planer dumps into a 30 gal can with a cyclone lid, then down the trunk line to the DC).

I think any 2hp cyclone would work fine for your use. Just keep line losses to a minimum. I ran a 6 inch metal trunk line down the length of the shop. 4 and 5 inch drops to the tools. People cheap out on the duct work, using 4 inch PVC, then need more collector to get it to work.

That s a Performax sander on top of the Grizzly planer (saves floor space) BTW.

I have shop vacs on my bandsaw, resaw and miter saw station. Just haven t had time to run the DC to them yet.

- sawdustdad

Is there any reason not to use PVC?

As far as cheeping out, is there a reason to go metal vs 6” PVC?

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sawdustdad

335 posts in 723 days


#5 posted 11-28-2017 01:59 AM

Metal is lighter, has better geometry in curves/wyes, and does not suffer static build up.

-- Murphy's Carpentry Corollary #3: Half of all boards cut to a specific length will be too short.

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

2903 posts in 1827 days


#6 posted 11-28-2017 02:15 AM

There is no real reason to use PVC. If you ask, there will be lots of answers for and against using PVC.

I use 6” DWV PVC pipe and made my own blast gates. For me, it was the easiest and cheapest solution. You should price out the options and see what works best. Some people have problems finding the thin wall DWV type pipe.

View Manitario's profile

Manitario

2564 posts in 2721 days


#7 posted 11-28-2017 05:34 PM

That’s a good sized shop and a decent layout. Looking at your layout, you’re going to have 2 branches; one to your center TS and planer, and one to the wall your jointer is on, each branch will be about 15-20ft max. My only comment on your layout would be to have your MS station as close to your DC as possible; the MS is one of the biggest dust producing machines in the shop and hardest to capture dust from it; you’ll benefit from having the highest CFM from having it as close to your DC as possible. Having the DC in a separate room is a good idea; they’re loud! You’ll need to have some sort of air return from the room into your shop though. Here’s a good discussion/description of an air return/closet for a DC
http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/forum/forum/clearvue-cyclones/noise-control/1301-sound-isolation-closet-return-air-question

Your main question is about what sort of DC you need. It really depends on what sort of goal you have for having a DC. If you want a clean looking shop, ie. good shavings and chip collection, then you can go with really any 2hp DC, it’ll keep your shop looking clean. If you want the air to be clean as well, then you’ll want a 3hp DC at minimum. Here’s why:

Dust collection is basically dependent on how much air the DC can move. This is measured in CFM. Most DC will have a stated CFM, eg. 1800CFM. This is the max that the machine will produce, under ideal circumstances. As we add ducting, bends in the duct etc. we introduce “friction” into the system (static pressure) which the dust collector has to work against. This lowers the CFM the DC is able to produce. Length of duct, diameter of duct (the smaller the duct diameter, the higher the static pressure), number of bends, type of bends (90deg vs 45 etc), use of flex duct all influences the amount of static pressure and impacts the amount of CFM you get at each machine. A DC is able to maintain CFM roughly based on it’s HP and the size of impeller. So, you may have a small DC that is listed as 1800CFM but once you hook it up to the duct system, the end CFM at each machine is very low.

A clean looking shop is not the same as clean air in the shop. The smallest dust particles that we breath in are too small to see with the human eye. So, if you want to have your shop looking clean, any 1.5hp or 2hp DC (regardless of their advertised CFM) will produce enough CFM based on your layout to move around 300CFM at each machine, which will keep the shop clean. If you want the air to be clean (the smallest dust particles), you’ll need to have at least 600CFM at each machine; you’ll need a 3hp machine to achieve this. The various opinions you’ll read online about how their 1.5hp or 2hp DC “works great” is not usually based on actually testing the air quality in the shop or actually measuring the CFM their DC gets at each of their machines, it is more just a reflection that their DC manages to collect all the chips and sawdust.

If you really want to get into the technical details, here’s a great website:
http://www.billpentz.com/Woodworking/Cyclone/index.cfm#index.cfm
If you click on the “ducting” tab and then on the “Static Calculator Spreadsheet”. This will download an Excel file where you can plug in the details from your shop eg. duct length etc. and figure out what the actual static pressure you’ll get from your duct layout. You can then look at the fan curve for the DC you’re thinking about buying and figure out what CFM you’ll get eg:

This is for a 3hp Oneida. In red, you can see that for a calculated static pressure of 8 inWC (which would be about average for a shop your size if you use 6” duct) you can expect a CFM of around 700, which is pretty good.

As for what DC to get; doesn’t really matter. Everyone has their preferences; I’m actually not a huge fan of Oneida for various reasons, but most of the DC’s on the market have a similar design and will perform comparably. Decide what you want for CFM, and then find something in your budget.

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

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