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Unstable table saw blade

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Forum topic by NoSpace posted 11-25-2017 02:16 AM 477 views 0 times favorited 21 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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NoSpace

104 posts in 1074 days


11-25-2017 02:16 AM

I have a DeWalt 7480 contractor saw. I’ve nearly exclusively used a Diablo 80 tooth blade in it since I bought it 3 years ago and no complaints. The Diablo mainly cuts plywood and cleans hardwood edges. A couple years ago, before I bought my Laguna bandsaw, I bought bought a 24 tooth Forest WWII blade to attempt to cut hardwoods, as I moved in that direction from sheet materials. But that blade had some kind of issue where it would “flutter” during the cut, and then I’d see some chatter on the side of the piece I cut. It’s been long enough that I can’t remember any other details of what I was doing, so curious if this rings a bell for anyone as to what might be wrong.

I shelved the issue because I got the bandsaw and later a tri-master blade and it cuts so straight that my Diablo table saw blade does well enough to clean up bandsaw marks. But yes, even just cleaning an edge it burns, and I also notice it must be deflecting a little. Well, I have a project now with a pretty hefty edge that needs trimming, built a special sled just for it, and just barely exposing the edge of the piece to the blade burns and must be deflecting.

So I put the WWII blade on, hoping it will not deflect so much. Hoping maybe it was fluttering trying to feed too thick a piece too quickly. I didn’t realize back then just how much work it is to rip hardwoods on a table saw. I can’t try it until tomorrow because of noise issues, so figured I’d see if anyone on the board has some ideas as to what causes a blade to flutter. My Diablo blade never has done anything like that, no matter what Ive put it through or how bad it burns.


21 replies so far

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MrUnix

5978 posts in 2032 days


#1 posted 11-25-2017 02:31 AM

From Freud:

• The number of teeth cutting the wood simultaneously must be between 3 or 4 for ripping and ideally 5 to 7 for crosscutting. With less than 3 teeth cutting the sawblade begins to vibrate leading to an uneven cut.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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sawdustdad

334 posts in 718 days


#2 posted 11-25-2017 03:26 AM

You are asking a contractor saw to behave like a quality cabinet saw. There is a reason they call it a contractor saw and not a cabinet saw…

-- Murphy's Carpentry Corollary #3: Half of all boards cut to a specific length will be too short.

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Rich

1973 posts in 423 days


#3 posted 11-25-2017 03:47 AM

There’s a lot going on in your post. I’ll start with the Diablo blade burning. You don’t mention cleaning it and if you used that blade for 3 years to cut plywood you’ll have a lot of pitch built up on it. That will cause burning for sure. Also, the glue in plywood is hard on tools, so it’s probably dulled substantially over time. I’d recommend at least cleaning it, and better yet, replacing it. Diablo’s aren’t worth the cost of sharpening in my opinion.

As for the Forrest, since the Diablo doesn’t flutter and this one does, there’s nothing wrong with your saw. Forrest blades are also of the highest quality, so the blade’s likely not bad. If it’s thin kerf, I’d try adding a stabilizer plate. Forrest makes one. I keep one on my blade all the time. In fact, once I removed it because I needed the full cut capability of the blade and didn’t put back on right away because I’m lazy. Within a couple of weeks, I noticed that my crosscut sled’s kerf had widened and I wasn’t getting cuts as clean as I was used to. I put it back on and all is good.

-- No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

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NoSpace

104 posts in 1074 days


#4 posted 11-25-2017 04:33 AM

I was hoping you’d respond, Brad. Yeah, I’d wondered vaguely about the 24 teeth but they must design them for a reason. figured it would be less stress on the motor of my smaller saw, but now that I only care about cleaning edges, maybe I should try the 40 tooth.

Sawdustdad, I’m done asking it to behave, now I’m telling it to.

Rich, I’ve just purchased:

Freud SC-001 3-1/2-Inch Blade Stabilizer with 5/8-Inch Arbor for 7-Inch Saws or Larger

If that don’t look right to you let me know very soon so I can cancel it. :)

Yes, thin kerf only will work with my riving knife and i’m sure this saw doesn’t have the power for more.

I’m not a high volume wood-worker, but yeah, that diablo is a little beat. I might clean it, but I might also downgrade to a new 60 tooth.

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Rich

1973 posts in 423 days


#5 posted 11-25-2017 04:40 AM


Rich, I ve just purchased:

Freud SC-001 3-1/2-Inch Blade Stabilizer with 5/8-Inch Arbor for 7-Inch Saws or Larger

If that don t look right to you let me know very soon so I can cancel it. :)

- NoSpace

I have the Forrest STIF05 5-Inch Saw Blade Dampener. I’m not sure how much difference the additional 1-1/2” diameter makes. One advantage to the 3-1/2” item you got is that it will not interfere when the blade is raised to its limit. The 5” unit reduces the depth of cut to 2-1/2 inches. It’s also twice the cost, so that may be a factor.

-- No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

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Carloz

954 posts in 425 days


#6 posted 11-25-2017 12:39 PM

You mentined several times that you are cleaning the edges. Does it mean you cut off very little material less than the width of the blade? That is bery hard on the blade and thin kerf will deflect in this situation making less perfect cut.

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rbrjr1

91 posts in 39 days


#7 posted 11-25-2017 01:07 PM



You are asking a contractor saw to behave like a quality cabinet saw. There is a reason they call it a contractor saw and not a cabinet saw…

- sawdustdad


I didn’t get that impression at all, I believe that OP is dealing with a sawblade he’s familiar with acting differently than it has in the past.

-- measure twice, cut once.

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Kazooman

867 posts in 1786 days


#8 posted 11-25-2017 02:17 PM


You are asking a contractor saw to behave like a quality cabinet saw. There is a reason they call it a contractor saw and not a cabinet saw…

- sawdustdad

I didn t get that impression at all, I believe that OP is dealing with a sawblade he s familiar with acting differently than it has in the past.

- rbrjr1

The OP mentioned that the flutter occurred from day one with the WWII.

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NoSpace

104 posts in 1074 days


#9 posted 11-25-2017 03:51 PM

“Does it mean you cut off very little material less than the width of the blade? That is bery hard on the blade and thin kerf will deflect”

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m doing. Does everyone agree with this? Is it a bad idea to polish a rough-cut from a bandsaw with table saw? What would be the “right” way to do it?

I’ve considered hand planing this one.

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Rich

1973 posts in 423 days


#10 posted 11-25-2017 04:07 PM


“Does it mean you cut off very little material less than the width of the blade? That is bery hard on the blade and thin kerf will deflect”

Yes, that s exactly what I m doing. Does everyone agree with this? Is it a bad idea to polish a rough-cut from a bandsaw with table saw? What would be the “right” way to do it?

I ve considered hand planing this one.

- NoSpace

He’s full of it. There’s nothing wrong with shaving an edge clean on the table saw. Sometimes after jointing one edge straight I go to the table saw to clean the other edge and there isn’t a full kerf of material to remove. Other times I need to sneak up on a cut to get a perfect fit and shave the edge the same way.

-- No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

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knotscott

7784 posts in 3209 days


#11 posted 11-25-2017 05:14 PM


You are asking a contractor saw to behave like a quality cabinet saw. There is a reason they call it a contractor saw and not a cabinet saw…

- sawdustdad

The DW7480 is a jobsite saw with a universal motor, not a contractor saw.

Re: blade flutter – Is the blade warped by any chance? Did it get overheated? It might not have been quite right from the beginning….things can happen to even superior blades. Overtightening a blade on the arbor can distort them too.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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MrRon

4491 posts in 3077 days


#12 posted 11-25-2017 07:00 PM

I would suggest that “flutter” is inevitable with any blade. When cutting hard wood especially, there may be pockets of wood that is less or more dense for the blade to pass through. Depending on how fast you push the wood through, and with an underpowered saw, the saw blade tips can react with the changes in wood density and be microscopically nudged off track. There are many reasons a blade can flutter. It can be from an arbor that has some bearing issues, or it could have a slight bend, or the fence is not perfectly straight. I think flutter is something you just have to live with

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NoSpace

104 posts in 1074 days


#13 posted 11-25-2017 07:15 PM

Coming at this problem from several angles I guess. Not quite late enough in the day for me to make noise. I just bought a 42 tooth Tenryu blade which they swore at the woodworking shop is a good blade. I also bought a pair of stabilizers so I don’t have to wait for shipping. I don’t quite understand how these stabilizers work, if I put one to the left of the blade, it will be off center from the riving knife. So do I just put one on the right side?

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Rick_M

10606 posts in 2213 days


#14 posted 11-25-2017 08:08 PM



... a 24 tooth Forest WWII blade … had some kind of issue where it would “flutter” during the cut, and then I d see some chatter on the side of the piece I cut.
- NoSpace

Does it flutter continuously or sporadically? I have a Freud 60T blade that flutters sporadically. After posting about it on a couple forums and trading messages with Freud, 2 theories came up … 1) the blade lost tension (basically is bad), 2) a harmonic. Freud offered to test it but if they couldn’t find a problem I would pay shipping both ways which I declined. I moved my saw and the problem got better, though didn’t go away completely, which makes me believe it is a harmonic between my saw and that particular blade. I ended up buying a new blade and it doesn’t flutter.

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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Rich

1973 posts in 423 days


#15 posted 11-25-2017 08:51 PM


I don t quite understand how these stabilizers work, if I put one to the left of the blade, it will be off center from the riving knife. So do I just put one on the right side?

- NoSpace

Just use one stabilizer on the side the arbor nut goes on. Don’t put one between the arbor plate and the blade. Like you said, that will offset the blade and screw everything up.

Oh, and Tenryu is supposed to be a good blade.

I keep a 40 tooth blade on the saw most of the time. It’s good for crosscutting and ripping most things 1” and thinner. I put my 24 tooth blade on when I’m going to be ripping 8/4 stock. It burns less and requires less effort for the saw.

-- No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

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