LumberJocks

My blotch control

  • Advertise with us

« back to Woodworking Skill Share forum

Forum topic by D_Allen posted 1159 days ago 3678 views 2 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View D_Allen's profile

D_Allen

495 posts in 1289 days


1159 days ago

Well, I hope I don’t get beat up too bad for this.
Here are the results of my attempt to control the blotching on maple.
I was going to order some of Charles Neil’s product but then I remembered the experience I had with shipping some water based contact adhesive in these really cold temps in the northeast. So, I looked around at what I had and tried some sealant that I had for years. It was used to seal a floor before applying self-stick tile. Well, it seems to have worked pretty well. One end of the wood in the picture was stained when I was trying to decide on a color. When I applied some MW oil stain it looked awful. I’m not sure which end it was anymore. But anyway, I applied some of the sealer to the middle and let it dry. No sanding before or after it dried but I did wet it good and wiped away the excess. I then applied stain again the next day. I have been accepting this problem for way too long. The other image is a table top that has box-store oak ply in the center and the same maple around the edges. All surfaces were treated with a 50/50 diluted mix, wetted good and wiped off the excess. I allowed it to dry overnight and then lightly sanded with 320 grit before applying the stain. After that dried for 24 hours, I applied 3 coats of water based poly. I’m not saying this is a good substitute for the stuff Charlie makes. I’ll probably get some of that when it gets warmer. He has a lot more experience at this than I do. What I am trying to show here is that there is a way to make these staining projects look a whole lot better. After spending so much time getting the wood just right, I hated what it looked like with just some light colored stain. Now I see what I was missing. I will be trying some pine projects again just to see how much better it can look.

-- Website is finally up and running....www.woodandwrite.com


12 replies so far

View Lee Barker's profile

Lee Barker

2163 posts in 1355 days


#1 posted 1158 days ago

Dick Metz (not 100% positive that is his name) used to write a column in a cabinetmaking magazine, and he always advocated gluesize when there were stain blotching problems. This was a mixture of glue with lots of water, and you can imagine the mild sealing that that could accomplish. I am curious if any readers of this post have anything to add to that subtopic.

As for the original post, hooray for you, and I can’t see why you would want to try another commercial product when you have solved the problem. I guess we’d all want to know is this stuff cheaper, and where can one find it?

Kindly,

Lee

-- "...in his brain, which is as dry as the remainder biscuit after a voyage, he hath strange places cramm'd with observation, the which he vents in mangled forms." --Shakespeare, "As You Like It"

View D_Allen's profile

D_Allen

495 posts in 1289 days


#2 posted 1158 days ago

Cheaper for me, yes, because I had it on hand.
I’m not advocating this use of the product because it is not specifically made for this use.
It can still be found and at a 50/50 dilution rate it will go a long way.
My intent was mainly to say that putting up with blotching is not necessary. But you will have to rethink your staining color choices. What used to seem dark will not be so dark with a blotch pre-treatment.

-- Website is finally up and running....www.woodandwrite.com

View hObOmOnk's profile

hObOmOnk

1380 posts in 2632 days


#3 posted 1158 days ago

Lee:
I have used liquid hide glue size and diluted shellac as botch and pre-stain conditioners for decades.
It still works just like it has for centuries.

-- 温故知新

View Richard's profile

Richard

686 posts in 1195 days


#4 posted 1158 days ago

hobomonk, are you useing the liquid hide glue size and diluted shellac together or seperately ? And how much of a mix or dilution rate do you use?

View hObOmOnk's profile

hObOmOnk

1380 posts in 2632 days


#5 posted 1158 days ago

Richard:
I use the hide glue sizing and the shellac separately.
I make my own finishing products, but you can use various store-bought solutions.
Titebond makes a Liquid Hide Glue that can be diluted with water to use a pretreatment.

Here’s a reference on hide glue sizing: Lee Valley

Zinsser SealCoat shellac can be diluted with denatured alcohol to about a 1lb cut as a pretreatment.
Mix shellac approximately one to one with the alcohol; adjust to taste.

-- 温故知新

View DLCW's profile

DLCW

513 posts in 1159 days


#6 posted 1158 days ago

I’ve been using Daly’s Benite under water and solvent based stains for years and it does a very good job of evening out stains.

Another thing to look into for blotch-proof coloring of woods like maple, cherry and alder is to use dyes. Either water soluble or alcohol soluble will work. Many alcohol soluble dyes are color fast and won’t fade whereas the water soluble dyes can fade when exposed to sunlight. Another nice thing about dyes is you can combine different colors to get exactly the color you want.

-- Don, Diamond Lake Custom Woodworks - http://www.dlwoodworks.com - "If you make something idiot proof, all they do is make a better idiot"

View Lee Barker's profile

Lee Barker

2163 posts in 1355 days


#7 posted 1157 days ago

Good conversation. I must correct an error in my earlier post—Jerry Metz is his name. Carry on…I’m having lots of learnings here…

Kindly,

Lee

-- "...in his brain, which is as dry as the remainder biscuit after a voyage, he hath strange places cramm'd with observation, the which he vents in mangled forms." --Shakespeare, "As You Like It"

View tbone's profile

tbone

255 posts in 2189 days


#8 posted 1156 days ago

Lee,
I remember reading Jerry Metz’s column every month. I know he was a big proponent of glue-sizing on END GRAIN, not only for protection, but also for evenness of color after staining.

-- Kinky Friedman on gay marriage: "They should have the right to be just as miserable as the rest of us."

View Lee Barker's profile

Lee Barker

2163 posts in 1355 days


#9 posted 1156 days ago

Thanks for remembering more than I did, tbone. So if you have, say, a 5 piece door with a raised panel and you want to tame the absorption on the end grain, do you size the whole piece and then sand the whole piece, leaving the sizing that’s absorbed more deeply in the end grain?

And would that same technique work on the OP’s maple? It seems like the areas that blotch on these problem woods are like end grain, occurring where the grain ceases to be parallel and more porous areas appear on the surface.

And can you make sizing from yellow glue or does it have to be hide glue?

Kindly,

Lee

-- "...in his brain, which is as dry as the remainder biscuit after a voyage, he hath strange places cramm'd with observation, the which he vents in mangled forms." --Shakespeare, "As You Like It"

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

109502 posts in 2082 days


#10 posted 1156 days ago

D Allen
There are lots of things that help with blotching some better than others. I have tried many of them and many of them are better than no treatment at all. Some I would be concerned about there long term bonding properties.
Over 22 years of finishing Charles Neils blotch control worked best for me. I hadn’t heard anything about cold weather being a problem with shipping Charles products. I guess the best way to find out is to e mail Charles about it. charles@charlesneilwoodworking.com

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View tbone's profile

tbone

255 posts in 2189 days


#11 posted 1156 days ago

http://www.wisnofurniturefinishing.com/2010/04/glue-size-in-wood-finish.html
This seems like a pretty good explanation of glue-sizing as compared to a sanding-sealer.

-- Kinky Friedman on gay marriage: "They should have the right to be just as miserable as the rest of us."

View Todd Thomas 's profile

Todd Thomas

4969 posts in 1953 days


#12 posted 1115 days ago

I recently did the Charles Neil product….and I got to tell you it worked great….way better then I thought it or anything would…I used it to refinish a pine vanity and on some poplar and they both turn out very good.

-- Todd, Oak Ridge, TN, Hello my name is Todd and I'm a Toolholic, I bought my last tool 10 days, no 4 days, oh heck I bought a tool on the way here! †

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

GardenTenders.com :: gardening showcase