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Shaper cutter issue - Rail & Stile

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Forum topic by cracknpop posted 10-27-2017 02:42 PM 720 views 0 times favorited 30 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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cracknpop

259 posts in 2187 days


10-27-2017 02:42 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question shaper

Just received new shaper cutters from Grizzly. Set them up to cut the rail ends first. Cut the profile to test the fit and not very happy with the fit at all. I’ve not had this issue with my other Grizzly cutter set, but it has been awhile since I used rail and stile cutters. Boards are hard maple and were milled at same time to same thickness.

Is this a cutter issue?
Is this operator error?

-- Rick - I know I am not perfect, but I will keep pressing on toward the goal of becoming all I am called to be.


30 replies so far

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

5466 posts in 2651 days


#1 posted 10-27-2017 02:49 PM

Some sets come with shim washers to adjust the fit. It’d be nice if it worked right out of the box though.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View Madmark2's profile

Madmark2

373 posts in 426 days


#2 posted 10-27-2017 03:04 PM

Did you take two passes? Don’t.

I do the stiles first and cope the ends last. If you do that and then set the top of the under cutter dead on even with the top of the bottom edge all should be well.

Rail & stile cutters are very sensitive to stock thickness variations. Make sure you’re dead on .750 as stock thickness. Any variance will show up as a 2x error.

S2S from the home store will have thickness variations bad enough to show.

Buy a digital thickness gauge and use it before and after planing to insure that all your stock is dead on.

M

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

1207 posts in 1568 days


#3 posted 10-27-2017 03:09 PM

It’s just a shim issue like pinto stated. The slot on the stile should be 1/4”. Your adjustment should be made on the rail cutter.

You do not need to have your wood “dead on” for 3/4” doors. You just need to make sure when routing the stiles and rails, they should be down on the router table. If you are set up properly, when the two pieces come together, there will only be a very minor difference in the two surfaces mate if any. A sander can take care of that. On the back side of the door, again, sanding with a belt sander will remove any discrepancies there may be. My disclaimer is, I take all my doors to a shop that has a 36’ widebeltTimesaver to clean up all my doors. A couple times I’ve put together 3/4” stiles and 7/8” rails to make a door that I was too lazy to take the rail down to thickness. As long as both stile and rails are face down, the door will look good when assembled. you don’t need all those measuring devices shown below. They are for people who don’t really know how the work wood….......... Jerry (in Tucson)

I really don’t know why people don’t use belt sanders. They were invented to make woodworking a lot easier than some are

............... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

View cabmaker's profile

cabmaker

1624 posts in 2647 days


#4 posted 10-27-2017 04:42 PM


It s just a shim issue like pinto stated. The slot on the stile should be 1/4”. Your adjustment should be made on the rail cutter.

You do not need to have your wood “dead on” for 3/4” doors. You just need to make sure when routing the stiles and rails, they should be down on the router table. If you are set up properly, when the two pieces come together, there will only be a very minor difference in the two surfaces mate if any. A sander can take care of that. On the back side of the door, again, sanding with a belt sander will remove any discrepancies there may be. My disclaimer is, I take all my doors to a shop that has a 36 widebeltTimesaver to clean up all my doors. A couple times I ve put together 3/4” stiles and 7/8” rails to make a door that I was too lazy to take the rail down to thickness. As long as both stile and rails are face down, the door will look good when assembled. you don t need all those measuring devices shown below. They are for people who don t really know how the work wood….......... Jerry (in Tucson)

I really don t know why people don t use belt sanders. They were invented to make woodworking a lot easier than some are

............... Jerry (in Tucson)

- Nubsnstubs

No disrespect Jerry….but who said anything about a router in use here ?

Im not so sure that it is a shim issue although it can look like that when improperly shimmed ,,,,,, but only when using shimmed sets….....Never saw a set from grizzly requiring shims,,,,,, all of mine are very well matched

Looks like its gonna be a fence setting,,,,,,set up and run the sticking first,,,,,, cope second….without changing the fence setting

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cabmaker

1624 posts in 2647 days


#5 posted 10-27-2017 04:46 PM

Oh,,,, and run face down

And the grizz cutters are set up to run the sticking in the normal, right to left direction

and to maintain the face down orientation, you will cope left to right.

View sras's profile

sras

4666 posts in 2967 days


#6 posted 10-27-2017 04:49 PM

Hard to know for sure with just pictures, but—- the second photo looks different from the 1st & the 3rd. That could indicate the pieces are not staying tight against the reference surfaces…

-- Steve - Impatience is Expensive

View cracknpop's profile

cracknpop

259 posts in 2187 days


#7 posted 10-27-2017 06:04 PM

I really appreciate your thoughts so far.
pintodeluxe – no shims came with this set
Madmark2 – only one pass on both cope and profile. All boards were jointed and planed at same time
cabmaker and sras – I swapped the cutters but did not change the fence. Used a square backing board for cope cuts and thought I kept the stile well against the fence.
sras – pics 2 and 3 I held a little different pressure to show the slop toward face.

Based on the comments so far, I tend to think the problem lies in the slot cutter and the spacer thickness not being perfect. Some shims may well correct the issue, though didn’t think a brand new set out of the box would need them.

-- Rick - I know I am not perfect, but I will keep pressing on toward the goal of becoming all I am called to be.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

3657 posts in 2147 days


#8 posted 10-27-2017 06:09 PM

Is this a braised or insert tooling? How about a picture of the cutters or a part number from Grizzle to ID them.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View cracknpop's profile

cracknpop

259 posts in 2187 days


#9 posted 10-27-2017 06:15 PM

The calipers confirm what the eye sees…

I’ve messaged Grizzly to see what they are going to do to correct this. Wondering if .020 shim will fix the issue?
Again, thanks for your input.

-- Rick - I know I am not perfect, but I will keep pressing on toward the goal of becoming all I am called to be.

View cracknpop's profile

cracknpop

259 posts in 2187 days


#10 posted 10-27-2017 06:16 PM



Is this a braised or insert tooling? How about a picture of the cutters or a part number from Grizzle to ID them.

- AlaskaGuy


Here’s link to cutters I ordered
http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-pc-Stile-Rail-Set-Roman-Ogee-3-4-Bore/C2164

-- Rick - I know I am not perfect, but I will keep pressing on toward the goal of becoming all I am called to be.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

3657 posts in 2147 days


#11 posted 10-27-2017 06:26 PM

Don’t assume because they are new cutters you don’t need shims. I have a 600 dollar set from Freeborne that uses shims.

Anytime you are using profile, counter profile cutters in is up most important the the shaper spindle be perfectly perpendicular to the shaper table or you cuts with come out like yours are. You have to get that spindle perfect or get a set of shims.

You can get shims form most anyone that makes shaper cutters.

https://www.amanatool.com/products/shaper-cutters/shaper-cutter-parts-accessories/8-pc-shim-sets-for-shaper-cutters.html

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

1207 posts in 1568 days


#12 posted 10-27-2017 08:22 PM

No disrespect Jerry….but who said anything about a router in use here ?

Im not so sure that it is a shim issue although it can look like that when improperly shimmed ,,,,,, but only when using shimmed sets….....Never saw a set from grizzly requiring shims,,,,,, all of mine are very well matched

Looks like its gonna be a fence setting,,,,,,set up and run the sticking first,,,,,, cope second….without changing the fence setting

- cabmaker

No disrespect taken. I had my answer to the question posted when I noticed I said router instead of shaper. Since they are basically the same when router is put into a stationary table, and the process is the same, I left it the way it was instead of editing comment.

It is a shim issue, no if’s and’s or butts. Crackpop needs .020” of shim to bring bring the tongue up to size. Period. ........ Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

8324 posts in 1324 days


#13 posted 10-28-2017 12:10 AM

Burn

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

3657 posts in 2147 days


#14 posted 10-28-2017 12:35 AM



Burn

- TheFridge

?????

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

8324 posts in 1324 days


#15 posted 10-28-2017 12:57 AM

Totes

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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