Copying work

To inspire another woodworker to try something new, perhaps a new style of construction, technique or detail, as far as I’m concerned that’s what craft is about and why I enjoy the atmosphere on this site so much. I hope that never changes.

-- If knowledge is not shared, it is forgotten.

personally I would be honord if someone copied a piece of mine.

-- Jeremy, Saratoga, NY

If someone copied something I built, I would know they were new to woodworking. Every time I log into Lumberjocks I’m amazed at the talented folks here. Some of the details in the projects are mind blowing.
Anyone new to Lumberjock needs to check out work done by these guys. Mark DeCou, GaryK, Lee A. Jesberger, Todd A. Clippinger, Dennis Mitchell and Marc J. Spagnuolo aka Mr Woodwhisperer just to name a few. All these guys have done some amazing work but you can’t be an average woodworker to copy them.

-- Kirk H. -- http://www.kjwoodworking.com

I am always honoured when someone builds one of my designs and when they are done and ask for another that’s even better. I am very lucky that the numbers are beginning to grow much faster too.

I have no problem coming up with my own designs but i really suck at putting them on paper. That’s where i need help.

-- John in Cranbrook http://www.extremebirdhouse.com ....http://community.webshots.com/user/cranbrook2

Is it copying or is it “inspired”. Most everything I’ve built is inspired by others work. I do not set out to duplicate another woodworker’s design. I rather use elements that I like and the skills I have learned to bring together the wood, the design and the craft to build a piece that I am proud of. I am in awe of some of the really unique projects that top quality wood artists create. Very few of us have the artistic abillity to create trully one of a kind wood projects. I’m no artist, I’m a simple craftsman working in wood & doing the best I can with the skills & tools I have.

-- http://www.grandprairiewoodworks.com

Personally, I think imitation is the greatest form of flattery. I know I’ve gotten more than one idea from the work of others, particularly from projects posted on this site. I agree with Tim’s comment about the work being “inspired” by others and not necessarily copied.

I’d consider it a compliment if anyone thought my stuff was good enough to use as inspiration in thier own design or to outright duplicate. Either way it means they liked my stuff.

-- I've cut that board three times and it's still too short!

I have found that if another craftsperson has made, designed or built something that I would like to copy I contact them and ask for permission. Never have been refused. When I do make something that is from someone else’s designed I signed it with my name and “inspired by” to give the orginial artist some credit.

-- Genius is immediate, but talent takes time.

OK, I have been wondering about this. I really fell in love with a design series by Thos Moser. There is a repeating theme throughout the series that makes it unique but yet is still not anything that someone has not done before. If I copy this theme, is it OK? I guess it is if I don’t try to manufactue it, but just build if for myself and family. Maybe just go with the inspiration defense.

-- Stevethepeeve -- I'm no rocket surgeon

I am fairly new to Lumberjocks. There are many wonderfuly talented people here. Things that I post here are for anyone to use. I have no patent or copy right on any of my work. I will not make the same project twice. If some one wants to copy my work, I know that they will never reproduce what I have done, exactly. If someone gets inspired by my work, that is great! When most people copy someone’s work, they will invaribly put their own design signature in their piece. The basic shape of most pieces have been done before…it all has to do with how you embillish the piece…your design signature.

-- My mind is like lightning...one brilliant flash and then it's gone.

same here. i would be honored about having a piece of my work copied. influencing other woodworkers is what it is all about especially somewhere like lumberjocks or fine woodworking. I’m sure that the original makers of the pieces that Norm Abram copies would be proud to know that Norm is copying their piece.

Great discussion, folks. I agree wholeheartedly that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and that all of us are influenced by one another’s work. That’s what art is all about. I think what some people worry about is working very hard to define their own style, and creating a unique piece that they then see reproduced without acknowlegement, and for me that’s the core issue. Most every woodworker I know will state their work is Krenov- Maloof – Osgood – Shaker – Mosier – InsertWoodworkerNameHere – inspired. There are, sadly, a few people who will just “plagerize” and NOT give a nod to the original maker. Thankfully I don’t think any of them come to Lumberjocks! Looking at the work of others is the best way to inform our own work – we see a line here, a leg there, and work those ideas with our own hands and make them unique. Thanks for giving this some thought.

-- "No Board Left Behind"

I sure hope it’s ok, because I plan on copying most of the “New-Fangled Workbench” of John White’s. Mine won’t be exactly like his, but the basic plan and idea are pretty ingenious. Hal

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ProjectsAndDesign/ProjectsAndDesignPDF.aspx?id=2625

-- dofitch

I like to copy so much that I plan to actually copy this thread….

Actually, I am fine with a hobbiest copying other peoples work for themselves. Now if you copy someone else’s design for commercial purposes, then you need to pay.

-- making sawdust....

I thought about this while watching TV with the Mrs last night and I could see a situation where something like this could be an issue for someone.

If you’ve got a craftsman/artist who’s making quality pieces of unique and original design as his livelyhood, then the guy next door starts punching out cheap knockoffs trying to pass them off as the first guy’s work, I could certainly see the craftsman/artist being more than upset about it. In this situation I think he’s got a right to be resentful, particlarly in the absence of the courtesy that Lakey mentions.

As is usually the case, I guess there is more than one side to the story.

-- I've cut that board three times and it's still too short!

if you take their plans, follow the plans, and then say, “look at my project” without acknowledging the designer, that wouldn’t be good. And, if the plans were copyrighted and you used them anyway without permission – that really wouldn’t be good … and if you used the plans without permission and then pretended it was your own.. oh boy that man with the horns on his head is waiting for you!! lol

I’m not a skilled woodworker but I’m guessing that just by seeing a project posted doesn’t automatically give you the plans for it. You have to create your own dimensions and figure out how you will join the pieces together.. and select the stain to achieve the affect you want.. etc.

Copying: a compliment. If you don’t want someone to copy your stuff, I guess you make it, keep it in your house in a private room where nobody will ever see it.

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I am not good enough to copy some of the stuff I see here. I consider that I am picking up tips and inspiration to apply to projects I might attempt. If I wanted to make an exact copy of something I would contact the originator of the design.

-- Maplewood, MN

My feeling is that if you are concerned about someone copying your design/project, don’t post it. Sharing ideas and projects is what this forum is all about. When you walk into a furniture store and see a hutch you like, do you contact the manufacturer and ask for permission to build something similar? I’d guess the answer would be no. It would be nice if you acknowledged the woodworker who gave you the inspiration but I, for one, do not expect it.

-- Dave Herron, Boise, ID -- How hard can it be? It's only wood!

I would like to think that some of my work is original, but that is just not the case. Now it may be unfamiliar or the first time someone has seen a particular design. But we are all a collection of memories, when I sit down to draw or design, I will unconsciously start picking thru these 40 + years of memories, vague pieces and parts, fitting them together to achieve my goal or solve my problem. From a design aspect every human being approaches this the same way I believe. Now the solution I come up with is unique to me, but not to the craft of woodworking that has existed 2000 plus years. And I don’t really see the value if it were the “first”. Not in regards to the arts and crafts anyway.
What I do believe however, is the strength of the small, traditional (or not) crafts-person is not in being credited as the first, but rather when we can create pieces that are relevant to the age in which we live, the area in which we live and most importantly to the home in which the piece will live. This “relevance” I believe is a product of execution. AND… regardless of what many may think, you can’t patent hardwork and attention to detail.

-- If knowledge is not shared, it is forgotten.

I’d be flattered if someone wanted to copy something I made, as long as when they show

off their work, they give me a little credit for my idea.

I’m not in this for the money, just for the fun.

If anyone happens to be interested in a pattern, All you have to do is PM me, & I’ll gladly email

one if I happen to have one.

-- Dick Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

If someone want’s to copy some of my projects they are welcome to try.

I would be interested to see how they do.

Imitation is the greatest form of flattery.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

I’d love to copy yours Gary. I just don’t have the mojo to pull it off.

-- Maplewood, MN

I agree with Mothunter, if you are coping for yourself it should be ok, but not to sell, and Dave H, is right, if you don’t want your special items copied, then don’t post. I for one am happy to post (when I get good enough) until then I will look and dream …

Please read the above in a postive way, not trying to preach, just praise the real talent I have discovered here.

-- Keep your tools sharp, your mind sharper and the coffee hot

Sounds like this one is settled!

-- North Texas

Copyright infringement is always wrong. However, looking at a piece and doing something “similar” is how we all work. I seriously doubt if I’ve ever done anything truly “original”. I do have one border stamp pattern in the shop that I’ve never seen anywhere else. Even the great masters learned from copying. As long as it isn’t passed off as original it is a study. In the art field it is considered poor taste to copy someone’s copyrighted photo in another medium and pass it off as art. Might even wind up in a law suit. I think I speak for most of us on this website when I say,”If you can get ‘er done, go for it!!” I know for sure that I can teach you everything I know and you will still have a hard time catching me because I’ve never stopped learning.

-- Thos. Angle, Owyhee Design, Oregon

On some copywrited pieces that include an orginal design element you are allowed to make pieces for yourself or as gifts but can’t reproduce the piece with the exact design element to sell. The design element of the articulated wooden animals is an example of this.

-- Genius is immediate, but talent takes time.

It’s ok with me if you do a cheap knock off of something I’ve made, if you promise to tell me how you did it cheap.

-- Les, Wichita, Ks. (I'd rather be covered in saw dust!)

WARNING ! before you go copying any of my projects you should know this , im at least as poor as the guy i copied it from !! lol

-- if you aint the lead dog the scenery never changes

Don’t make exact copies. If you don’t have enough artistic imagination to put something in the piece that’s your own touch, maybe you should find something else to do. All the work out there should be an inspiration, not a blueprint.

-- Tim -- http://tmuli.com

I kind of have a unique perspective on this, as 90% of what I’ve built in the last year has been designed to be easy to copy, and I have to deliver full plans and dimensioned drawings to go with them! LOL….The projects I do for the magazine are “originals”, but if nobody wanted to build them, well…I’d be out of a job :) That said, I am thrilled whenever a reader approches me and says “Hey, I made your such-and-such out of the last issue”...but I’m even more thrilled when they add ”..but I changed this part to do this”. IMO, there is very little truly original work left…not “none”, but very little. I think that most designs come from bits and pieces of other projects put together into a new one. If I draw a leg style I like, chances are I’ve seen that leg somewhere before and stored it into my memory banks at some time…then brought it forward. Thats what happens when we see something that pleases us.

I think Einstien said it best: “A true genious is one who has learned to hide his sources”

Ryan

-- If you can't set a good example, at least serve as a horrible warning... www.rarewoodcreations.com

I agree with Ryan, but not really Einstien, Being recognized as genious, rarely equates to happiness.

-- If knowledge is not shared, it is forgotten.

Still laughing at Ryan’s Einsein quotation. “A true genious is one who has learned to hide his sources”. Funny. I’ll be honest and it seems I’m not alone, half of the appeal of LJ’s is seeing what other’s have created and also to be able to read how they did it. I can then comment and ask questions that the posters have always been happy to answer. After all, that is why they have posted it to begin with. Speaking of Ryan, ironically, I am currently stealing his design and have just sent him a note for advice. Check out his Asian themed box here or his website. Pretty awesome. So far so good on mine, but I’m stuck. Glad he commented he was very generous with his designs!! Hope to post it in the coming week. Anniversary is Saturday.

-- Jeff, South Carolina

Hey! That box design wasn’t for the magazines! But….aww shucks…..you can steal it anyway :)
I sent the answers you were looking for by PM. One condition: POST WHEN COMPLETE!

Cheers,

Ryan

-- If you can't set a good example, at least serve as a horrible warning... www.rarewoodcreations.com

I have had others send a message asking how I made something and can the copy, I have no problem telling them. I could not learn anymore if I was not copying someone else’s technique. Please keep posting I have not learned all I can yet. However I agree to copy to profit is not right to learn and develop your own style is something else.

-- Ron Central, CA

I’m put a copyright on some of my designs that are original. I’ve had people ask me if I have plans (i don’t) but I’m willing to help them to make it or something like it.

I just don’t want to see it in a catalog somewhere.

It’s the same when I wrote software to sell. I didn’t want anyone else making money off of what I created, trying to sell it as their own.

-- Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com

As Issac Newton was fond of saying “Standing on the shoulders of giants”, when describing his work.

I like the idea of taking something and making it better. Then it won’t be a copy.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

I’m the lucky one – anyone copying my work will have to step their own work down a notch or two. But if you are game – go for it.

-- Bill - "Suit yourself and let the rest be pleased." http://www.cajunpen.com/

—-”The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.” -by Albert Einstein

....and….

—-”Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep.” —by Scott Adams

....and one more….

”Adaptability is not imitation. It means power of resistance and assimilation.” —by Mahatma Gandhi

Thank you.
GODSPEED,
Frank

-- --frank, NH, http://frank.wordpress.com/

Still laughing Bill. Yeah, feel free to copy any of my hidden mistakes. Just be aware that I most likely copied them from someone else as well. Then again, it’s a hobby, not a source of revenue. I like a lot of the quotes that kind of speak of the evolution of a woodworker. We all start out with basic ideas and “stand on the shoulders” of others to progress. I doubt that many are truly self taught. I know I learned by looking at things around me at stores, others homes, catalogs, etc. . . I then picked what I liked and tried to learn to do it. I think that is the greatest appeal of the hobby for me. I want to produce this, let’s find out how to get there.

-- Jeff, South Carolina

I know a little about copyright laws as far as images go (photos, graphics, etc.) and of course writers who copyright their work. I’ve searched and searched and can’t find anything about woodworking idea copyright. I’m not too sure it’s possible to copyright a design created by a woodworker. But I did come across this thread. Kind of interesting. I hope the link works for you.

“www.canadianwoodworking.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19776&page=2”

-- Make things with wood.

As far as I am concerned copy away and don’t hesitate to ask for any help.

-- Mc Bridge Cabinets, Iowa

I look at other ideas and see what can be done to fit my needs. I have for example bought plans for a childs rocker. After lmakind a copy of the patteren I made a few changes. Mine I cut out a teddy bear in the back and made a few tweaks on the look of it. To me I do not feel proper makeing carbon copies of others.

I consider my projects “open source” so if anyone wants to copy please do. If you want my plans, just ask, I’ll send them to you or a bunch of pictures if I don’t have plans. How else is anyone to learn if we keep all our secrets to ourselves. The real “copyright” of our work is our own craftsmanship. I make mostly amateur creations with all the mistakes that comes with them. If someone wants to copy my mistakes, go ahead. In fact, I’ll give them to you. Such as my nightstand box that has more wood putty and glue in the joints than actual wood. But how else am I going to improve my craft without experience, but to make those mistakes and improve my skills.