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Forum topic by mwarning posted 10-22-2017 12:16 AM 716 views 0 times favorited 20 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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mwarning

15 posts in 199 days


10-22-2017 12:16 AM

Howdy folks,

I’m trying to stay positive here, but I’m having difficulty trying to dial in my 8” jointer.

Preface: I’m a novice, just getting into things and bought a Delta DJ20 clone made by King Industrial. It’s probably similar (or even identical) to many other asian made clones.

Anyhow, I bought it used and decided to check alignment etc when I bought it. Things seemed a bit out of adjustment so I painstakingly tweaked both the in feed and out feed tables alignment with the cutter head. My first attempt wasn’t all that successful, then work got in the way and I didn’t touch it for another few weeks. Today I went back down to the shop and finished—I thought I got it pretty close. I used my OneWay Multi-Gauge with dial indicator to make sure that first, the out feed table was in alignment (from front to back) with the cutter head body. I got it to within .001 which I was happy with. I then made sure the in feed table was parallel to the out feed. Again, I think I got it very close.

Then, I decided to swap out the cutter heads. Since my jointer uses a spiral head, I replaced all 40 blades. I removed the old blades, gave the head a very good cleaning and made sure the seats were nice and clean before putting in the new cutters.

I raised the out feed so that it was in line with the top of the cutter inserts at their highest point.

But now, I’m getting what i think is a ridiculous amount of scalloping. I snapped a photo catching the light to exaggerate the issue—but no mistake, these are visible in person and you can feel the ridges. In fact, I measured them to be between .002 and .003. Pic below:

I’m so demoralized by the whole process and just want to get things working nicely so I can continue learning and start enjoying my limited time in the shop… actually building some stuff lol.

If anyone has any advice or words of wisdom, I’d love to hear them!


20 replies so far

View Loren's profile

Loren

9560 posts in 3462 days


#1 posted 10-22-2017 12:30 AM

For the same reason we dub off the corners
of plane irons for finish cuts, you may want
to dub off the corners of your jointer cutters.

I would probably not bother and just accept
it as long as it didn’t interfere with edge joints.
I don’t consider the jointer a finishing tool.
When surfacing boards on a jointer I only bother
getting them flat enough to plane the other
face. Then I flip the board and plane off the
jointed face. It’s not necessary to get the jointed
face perfect, just flat enough to use as a reference
face for planing.

View JBrow's profile

JBrow

1252 posts in 734 days


#2 posted 10-22-2017 01:57 AM

mwarning,

If the jointer produced a smooth surface before making changes to the cutter head and/or cutter inserts, then these are some of the possible sources of the problem I can propose:

If the insert cutters are all from the same manufacturer and hence presumably the same thickness, shape, etc. and the cutter head and the inserts were thoroughly clean, then ensuring that the torque of each insert screw is the same and within the manufacturer’s specifications may solve the problem. On another recent thread pintodeluxe mentioned that over-tightening can deform cutter inserts.

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/242778

On the other hand, under-torqued inserts perhaps could ride up enough to cause the problem you are seeing.

One thing I noted is the uniform spacing the of the score lines. This suggests that perhaps only one row of cutters is improperly set, perhaps a little too high compared to the other cutters. This is because the cutter inserts are staggered from one row to another. The other insert cutter rows are not removing the score lines.

I am unsure what is meant when you say you “swap out the cutter heads”. I assume you mean you rotated the cutter inserts on the cutter head that came with the jointer. If this is true and the previous owner had rotated the insert cutters, perhaps you rotated one row of insert cutters to a fresh unused cutting edge while the other rows of insert cutters were rotated to a previously used edge. I suggest this possibility because I suspect that as insert cutters are used, some wear occurs. A single row of fresh edge cutters could cut deeper into the wood than the other rows of worn cutter insert edges.

View TungOil's profile

TungOil

710 posts in 309 days


#3 posted 10-22-2017 02:31 AM

Are you 100% sure the replacement cutters were the same as the old ones? I believe some helical heads use a straight edge cutter and some use a cutter that has a slight curve ground to the edge to make it truly helical.

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

View Tony_S's profile

Tony_S

755 posts in 2897 days


#4 posted 10-22-2017 10:30 AM



Are you 100% sure the replacement cutters were the same as the old ones? I believe some helical heads use a straight edge cutter and some use a cutter that has a slight curve ground to the edge to make it truly helical.

- TungOil

My first thought as well.
From the pic on King’s website, that jointer’s head is a spiral, but not a true helical. The carbide inserts should have a straight edge, not a curved edge.

-- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle

View mwarning's profile

mwarning

15 posts in 199 days


#5 posted 10-22-2017 08:30 PM


Are you 100% sure the replacement cutters were the same as the old ones? I believe some helical heads use a straight edge cutter and some use a cutter that has a slight curve ground to the edge to make it truly helical.

- TungOil

My first thought as well.
From the pic on King s website, that jointer s head is a spiral, but not a true helical. The carbide inserts should have a straight edge, not a curved edge.

- Tony_S

I’m pretty sure. Here is a pic of the head with the cutter inserts installed.

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

1154 posts in 1612 days


#6 posted 10-22-2017 10:35 PM

Heres what the inserts in my planer look like. Yours don’t look like they have the slight radius. Your head doesn’t look like a Bryd head so I’m not sure if Bryd inserts will work. But it’s worth a try because those line are horrible.

-- Aj

View Tony_S's profile

Tony_S

755 posts in 2897 days


#7 posted 10-22-2017 11:47 PM

That head isn’t a true Helical head. The cutters are parallel to the axis of the head, so the straight edged inserts are correct.
Still not convinced you have the correct inserts though. The fact that the scalloping is all tilted in the same direction would indicate that the inserts are a hair too small.
Did you order the replacement inserts from king?
Yours uses KW-093. 14.17mm x 14.17mm x 2mm Are these the inserts you used?

-- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle

View mwarning's profile

mwarning

15 posts in 199 days


#8 posted 10-23-2017 12:41 AM



That head isn t a true Helical head. The cutters are parallel to the axis of the head, so the straight edged inserts are correct.
Still not convinced you have the correct inserts though. The fact that the scalloping is all tilted in the same direction would indicate that the inserts are a hair too small.
Did you order the replacement inserts from king?
Yours uses KW-093. 14.17mm x 14.17mm x 2mm Are these the inserts you used?

Yes, these are the inserts I bought. And I’ve confirmed that they are the same size as the ones I took out of the jointer with a set of calipers.

- Tony_S


View Loren's profile

Loren

9560 posts in 3462 days


#9 posted 10-23-2017 01:01 AM

Put some of the older ones back in and
run a board over them. That will tell you
something about whether it is the cutters
or the installation that’s off.

View mwarning's profile

mwarning

15 posts in 199 days


#10 posted 10-25-2017 01:17 AM

OK, the pursuit continues….

I went down this evening and doubled checked the alignment—made a few tweaks to the tables and got everything aligned to my liking. I really feel good about the setup of the tables now.

So then I ran a board through again and still, it was happening.

So I took the 3 blades closest to the fence out on each row (4 rows total) and swapped back in the old cutters. Ran the board through and that section is smooth as butter. In fact, I can barely distinguish any scalloping. Now, I don’t know how old the original blades were (bought the jointer used), so my questions is:

Is it more likely that the old cutters are just dull enough that the issue doesn’t show up and the new blades would always exhibit this behavior OR is it more likely that something is funky with these new blades?

I’ll verify again tomorrow—but when I measured them last time with a set of calipers—the new blades were identical in size to the old ones. The new ones from King have a little . (dot) for indexing and the old ones have the initials “JT” if that makes any difference.

Thoughts?

View playingwithmywood's profile

playingwithmywood

348 posts in 1411 days


#11 posted 10-25-2017 01:41 AM

what happens if you raise the out-feed just a nudge up and I mean a nudge higher then the high point of the cutters

View firefighterontheside's profile

firefighterontheside

16733 posts in 1671 days


#12 posted 10-25-2017 01:51 AM

The fact that you’re getting those regularly spaced lines tells me there is something up with possibly just one row of cutters. How does the spacing of the lines compare to the spacing of cutters on the head?

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

8141 posts in 1300 days


#13 posted 10-25-2017 01:51 AM

Won’t make a difference.

My question is: if the old knives put out a surface as smooth as butter, why did you swap? Just bi curious.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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firefighterontheside

16733 posts in 1671 days


#14 posted 10-25-2017 01:52 AM

Are you sure that ALL of the old cutters were the same size?

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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TheFridge

8141 posts in 1300 days


#15 posted 10-25-2017 01:55 AM

That’s a possibility if the packaging was different. Check the row that is supposed to clean that line up.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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