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PMV-11 In Lie-Nielsen #4 1/2

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Forum topic by gargey posted 10-16-2017 03:07 PM 569 views 0 times favorited 18 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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gargey

851 posts in 590 days


10-16-2017 03:07 PM

Topic tags/keywords: pmv-11 pmv11 hand tools

I asked about compatibility in an earlier thread – and as Derek Cohen suggested the (record-style replacement) Veritas PMV-11 blades DO fit in an L-N 4 1/2 plane, so that’s a relief.

I have found one problem, though:

Due to the lesser thickness of the blade, it is tough (or impossible) for me to get a tight mouth setup in the plane. If I move the frog up to close up the mouth, its not possible to retract the blade enough; the adjuster nut runs out of play

Anyone else experience this issue? I’ll play around with it again to see if the problem’s actually with the adjuster nut (if I can somehow get more play out of it) or if I can somehow adjust where the chipbreaker mates with the yoke.


18 replies so far

View TechTeacher04's profile

TechTeacher04

359 posts in 1346 days


#1 posted 10-18-2017 06:48 PM

Before altering anything I would make a shim to account for the difference in thickness rather than mess with the adjusting nut.

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gargey

851 posts in 590 days


#2 posted 10-18-2017 07:28 PM

A shim where?

-Between the frog and the blade/chipreaker assembly?
Hmm. Seems dicey; you’d essentially be trying to mimic a raising of the surface of the frog where it contacts the blades, and you need such flat and even contact all the way down to the blade, with no slippage.

-Between the chipbreaker and the blade?
I would not attempt this as it would compromise the mating of the leading edge of the chipbreaker and the blade.

Haven’t yet had a chance to come back to this and fiddle with it some more. Maybe tonight if I’m lucky.

View bbasiaga's profile

bbasiaga

991 posts in 1809 days


#3 posted 10-18-2017 08:12 PM

A thin shim between the blade and frog would flex just fine under the tension of the lever cap, being pushed flat against both the blade and frog. What is the gap you are trying to close?

Another issue would be getting the little lever to reach through the shim and still mate with the blade.

Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

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bobasaurus

3341 posts in 2998 days


#4 posted 10-18-2017 08:38 PM

Maybe just use a wider mouth opening and set the chipbreaker really close to deal with tear-out.

-- Allen, Colorado (Instagram @bobasaurus_woodworking)

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TheFridge

8144 posts in 1300 days


#5 posted 10-18-2017 11:10 PM



Maybe just use a wider mouth opening and set the chipbreaker really close to deal with tear-out.

- bobasaurus

Bingo

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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OSU55

1397 posts in 1804 days


#6 posted 10-18-2017 11:39 PM



Maybe just use a wider mouth opening and set the chipbreaker really close to deal with tear-out.

- bobasaurus

With a properly set chip breaker a tight mouth isn’t necessary

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bandit571

18454 posts in 2498 days


#7 posted 10-18-2017 11:49 PM

Question is..WHICH chipbreaker? Always a problem with any Frankenplane….slot on the chipbreaker doesn’t quite line up with the depth adjust tab…..IF the chipbreaker was for a different maker’s plane….

That was the problem on Woodriver planes….and why a V2 chipbreaker will NOT work on a V3 plane.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

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ColonelTravis

1640 posts in 1708 days


#8 posted 10-19-2017 12:53 AM

I use a PM-V11 in my LN 4 1/2. As others said, don’t worry about the mouth. Measured mine as its set up now – chipbreaker is a little under 1/32” from the edge of the blade.

My frog angle is 55, not sure what yours is, but a higher angle also lessens the importance of the width of the mouth.

View Andre's profile

Andre

1451 posts in 1620 days


#9 posted 10-19-2017 01:14 AM

Buy a Veritas ? Think you can get them with the PMV-11 Irons? :)

-- Lifting one end of the plank.

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gargey

851 posts in 590 days


#10 posted 10-19-2017 12:47 PM

I’m aware a tight mouth is often not critical. I just don’t want to take that out of my arsenal if I can avoid it. In certain situations you might need all the help you can get.

As it stands it is wide-open best case (pre additional fiddling).


Maybe just use a wider mouth opening and set the chipbreaker really close to deal with tear-out.
- bobasaurus


With a properly set chip breaker a tight mouth isn t necessary
- OSU55

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gargey

851 posts in 590 days


#11 posted 10-19-2017 12:51 PM

I am using my Lie-Nielsen chipbreaker in my Lie-Nielsen plane. The lateral adjustment lever was not an issue, and the L-N yoke is mating with the L-N chipbreaker.

Ergo, the only change in geometry is the thickness of the blade. I did not expect this to happen (a diagram helps), but a less thick blade (.10 vs .14) in the same mockup has the effect of lowering the blade a surprising amount.

(TO ELABORATE:)
Pulling the blade back to compensate has the effect of opening the mouth. Moving the frog forward to compensate for this has the effect of lowering the blade again. With the thinner blade, it appears I reach the point in this game where I cannot back it off enough with the adjuster nut to compensate for the frog’s forward movement. This is all a function of where the slot for the yoke is in the L-N chipbreaker.


Question is..WHICH chipbreaker? Always a problem with any Frankenplane….slot on the chipbreaker doesn t quite line up with the depth adjust tab…..IF the chipbreaker was for a different maker s plane….

That was the problem on Woodriver planes….and why a V2 chipbreaker will NOT work on a V3 plane.
- bandit571


View gargey's profile

gargey

851 posts in 590 days


#12 posted 10-19-2017 12:56 PM

Not a tool collector, already have most of the L-N’s I need (and I think they’re nicer looking too, I’m into aesthetics).

I can’t be the only one who wants to use PMV-11 in L-N planes (it is great; A2 is a pain by comparison), hopefully this is at least informative even if it goes nowhere.

I was surprised by the lack of good/readily available information on it.


Buy a Veritas ? Think you can get them with the PMV-11 Irons? :)

- Andre

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gargey

851 posts in 590 days


#13 posted 10-19-2017 01:00 PM

Thanks for the info. I’d just like to confirm, have you found the same geometry issue (difficulty in getting a tight mouth, whether you want it or not)?


I use a PM-V11 in my LN 4 1/2. As others said, don t worry about the mouth. Measured mine as its set up now – chipbreaker is a little under 1/32” from the edge of the blade.

My frog angle is 55, not sure what yours is, but a higher angle also lessens the importance of the width of the mouth.

- ColonelTravis

I set my chipbreaker close, get the iron sharp, and don’t expect any issues in most cases. On certain crazy woods, though (like reversing grain mahogany, etc), I’d like to check the box if I can.

Maybe I’ll keep my A2 extra sharp and on the ready for those special occaisions.

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ColonelTravis

1640 posts in 1708 days


#14 posted 10-19-2017 08:45 PM

If I scoot the frog all the way to the edge of the mouth, I get a little less than 1/16th of an opening when the blade is out for a super-thin shaving. I can’t get the mouth opening any tighter unless I extend the blade – but with a smoother you’re not looking for thick cuts and at a certain point they wouldn’t even be able to get through a really tight mouth. Like I said, I have a 55 degree frog and at that angle, the mouth is pretty much a non-issue.

No problems with not being able to use the adjuster nut. If you have a 45 or 50 degree frog, wouldn’t you have to adjust the blade more to get the shaving you want vs. a 55? I’m trying to visualize this, maybe I’m wrong.

Right now I’m working a lot of mesquite, grain on that is 100% nuts. Even with a high angle frog, there are times when a scraper is the only thing that will tackle that stuff.

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gargey

851 posts in 590 days


#15 posted 10-19-2017 09:34 PM

Useful, thank you.


If you have a 45 or 50 degree frog, wouldn t you have to adjust the blade more to get the shaving you want vs. a 55? I m trying to visualize this, maybe I m wrong.
- ColonelTravis

Any difference in travel at 55 vs 45 (miniscule) would be more than offset by any difference in design between the 55 and 45 frogs, I would think.

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