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Reconfiguring Dust Collection System

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Forum topic by GatorTim posted 10-12-2017 04:42 PM 754 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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GatorTim

6 posts in 67 days


10-12-2017 04:42 PM

Topic tags/keywords: dust collection question

Hi fellow LJs!

I need help with my dust collection system re-design. I have a Delta 50-760 1.5 hp 1200 CFM dust collector that I have had for several years. I have not made any upgrades to it, so it is still the standard configuration with the large balloon bag filter on top and using plastic bags for collecting the dust. I am currently using 4 inch metal ducts for the main trunk and either 4” or 2 1/2” flex hose to connect to many of the dust collection ports on my tools depending on the manufacturers built-in port. My tools include most of the stationary tools, table saw, router table, miter saw, radial arm saw, drill press, and band saw.

I am moving my workshop into a new area and have the opportunity to redesign it and fix the problems that I am currently having with it. Right now it is doing a horrible job at picking up dust from just about everything except for the floor sweep. My workshop is always covered in a layer of dust. I know that part of that is because I have not gotten the right hoods and upgraded the collection ports on the tools and I plan on making that investment to upgrade the tools. I know that part of that is because I am using too much flex hose.

However, I have been reading every blog article and forum post on the subject and I believe that part of that issue might be because I am using 4” and smaller ducts. After reading Bill Pentz’s articles, I am feeling like I need to run 6” duct everywhere I can. But is that truly needed for good dust collection? I am installing a Jet AFS-1000B Air Filtration System. Does that take care of the fine dust collection needs that Bill warns about well enough that I can focus more on just chip and larger dust collection?

Sorry for being so wordy, I am honestly so confused on the topic that I feel like I could write a book on the options that I should be considering.

Thanks in advance for the great suggestions I am sure I will get!

Tim

-- Tim, New York


12 replies so far

View Dustin's profile

Dustin

408 posts in 580 days


#1 posted 10-12-2017 04:51 PM

In regards to the ambient air filter, keep in mind that this is primarily designed to help clear the air after operations have been completed. In other words: more fine dust in the filters on the air scrubber means less on your floors and tools, but it certainly doesn’t eliminate it. If you choose to go this route alongside using your DC for chip collection and you are concerned about your lung health, the best solution is to use a respirator.

From what I understand, a system like yours is not adequately powerful to duct around the shop for the purposes of eliminating ambient fines (though it may do an adequate job of collecting the big stuff and promoting general tidyness). I’m in a similar dilemma right now, owning a HF “2 HP” (yeah right) DC, and it’s really only useful for my planer and jointer (even there, it’s lacking). I’ve looked and looked for ways to make this thing better, but it will never quite do what I want/need it to do, as I really want a 2-stage system, but this simply doesn’t have the power for it. I’d love to upgrade to a 3HP cyclone system, but the Grizzly is a pretty hefty footprint, and the Oneida’s are fairly cost-prohibitive.

-- "Ladies, if your husband says he'll get to it, he'll get to it. No need to remind him about it every 6 months."

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Manitario

2566 posts in 2723 days


#2 posted 10-12-2017 06:27 PM

The problem with a 1.5hp DC is that it just doesn’t have the power or impeller size to deal with being ducted into a system. If you use 4” pipe, it increases the “friction” (static pressure) to a point that the DC can’t provide any meaningful CFM at each machine. Going up to 6” duct is great, but a small DC can’t keep the airspeed high enough to move the dust. I started with a 1.5hp DC and tried various configurations and sizing of ducting b/f I knew anything about dust collection, none really worked that well. A Thein baffle will further decrease airflow as it adds more static pressure to the system. A 1.5hp DC can work well as a portable DC that you connect to each machine with a short length of duct b/f you use it.

An ambient air filter will keep your shop looking cleaner, but doesn’t really do much for your lungs. The ambient af slowly picks up all the airborne dust that is missed by your DC. This gradually reduces the amount of airborne dust, but over time. During the time it reduces the airborne dust (typically hours) you’re breathing all that fine dust in…

With a good sized DC you don’t need an ambient af. The airborne particle count in my shop stays <600>m using. Save your money and put it towards a 3hp system that you can duct in.

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

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GatorTim

6 posts in 67 days


#3 posted 10-14-2017 02:10 AM

Thank you both for the responses. I guess I am going to do the best I can with what I have for now, knowing that what I really need is to upgrade to a 3 hp or higher dust collector. Do you have a good recommendation? What are you using and do you have any regrets about the decisions you made putting your system together?

Thanks again!

-- Tim, New York

View newwoodbutcher's profile

newwoodbutcher

711 posts in 2690 days


#4 posted 10-14-2017 04:20 AM

I have the same dc, and had the same challenges. I added a SDD and canister filter and reconfigured the blower SDD conection to eliminate a sharp turn, I thought that if That didn’t improve performance enough I would increase my pipe size from the 4” black sewer pipe to 6” or even 7” pipe. . But I honestly believe the current set up is al the system I need. Here’s the pics

-- Ken

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2716 posts in 1320 days


#5 posted 10-14-2017 12:51 PM

6” mains and 4” drops will be a HUGE improvement, trust me. ;-)

Don’t upgrade your blower until you give it a try.

I am running a Jet 1 1/2HP with a cyclone and it does a very good job.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View GatorTim's profile

GatorTim

6 posts in 67 days


#6 posted 10-14-2017 01:09 PM

@newwoodbutcher – thanks for sharing pictures of your setup and workshop. What is your longest run? Looks like the one trunk that goes to the band saw is probably around 10-12 feet, but couldn’t see where the other one was going.

@rwe2156- thanks for the comment. Are you having any issues with buildup in the 6” main because 1-1/2 hp isn’t enough to maintain a high enough air speed? How long is your longest run? Did you run PVC DWV or metal duct?

Thanks!

Tim

-- Tim, New York

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newwoodbutcher

711 posts in 2690 days


#7 posted 10-14-2017 04:32 PM

Tim,
There are two main branches, the lower one (in the photo) splits into two runs, one goes to an 8” jointer 9 feet long, the other goes 15 feet through two band saws, a drum sander and ends at the 15” planner. The upper branch goes up into the crawl space then down through the ceiling to the cabinet saw, that run is about 15 feet long as well and has the most turns. All machines dc works perfectly with this set up with the exception of the table saw which always has a pile of sawdust remaining inside the bottom of the cabinet. I have read that that is a comon problem with the Grizzly GO691 cabinet saw that might be improved with more cfm. I haven’t had any blockages or problems of any kind since this upgrade. However until I installed the SDD, canister filter and removed a big turn in the pipe I didn’t get very good results anywhere in my shop. I also thought I would eventually upgrade to a 3 HP unit with bigger pipe but now I’d be hard pressed to justify the cost and effort to upgrade, that doesn’t mean I won’t though. As a side, I also installed IVac automated blast gates and am delighted with that system as well

-- Ken

View altiplano's profile

altiplano

5 posts in 288 days


#8 posted 11-11-2017 04:23 PM

If you want to continue with your current blower the best upgrade you can do is a wynn canister filter.

The bag filter is more of a dust pump – it just doesn’t catch the fine dust. The increased surface area will improve your cfm also.

I would skip on the ambient air filter – use those resources elsewhere – and just continue running the DC with a few gates open for a while after you work. With a sub-micron canister filter you will be turning over and filtering the quantity of air in your workspace several times over in a short period of time.

View newwoodbutcher's profile

newwoodbutcher

711 posts in 2690 days


#9 posted 11-11-2017 04:46 PM

What altiplano said!

-- Ken

View GatorTim's profile

GatorTim

6 posts in 67 days


#10 posted 11-11-2017 05:22 PM

@altiplano- Thanks for the ideas! I had been starting to lean on that direction, but now I am convinced that is what I should do.

I actually had a 3hp reliant dust collector pretty much fall into my lap. So I am in the midst of upgrading my DC system and am going to take all of the advice that I have gotten from all of the LJs to use on the new system. I am going to upgrade the main ducts to 6” and use 4” only for the drop connections to each machine. I am adding a SDD XL cyclone on a 30 gallon steel drum. And I will add Wynn canister filters to the plan.

One question about the Wynn filters. The DC that I have is a twin bag reliant nn-830. Do I need to get two Wynn canisters, one for each side to mount on top and then replace the cloth bags on bottom with heavy mil plastic bags? Do I get 4 canisters and replace top and bottom on both sides wth canisters? Or can I cap off one side and just put one or two canisters on the uncapped side?

Thanks!

Tim

-- Tim, New York

View altiplano's profile

altiplano

5 posts in 288 days


#11 posted 11-11-2017 06:32 PM

The 3hp and SDD XL would be a great improvement for you.

You will need 2 filters if you continue to use the existing configuration, if you are planning to pull it apart and mount the blower above the SDD, or change the layout/cap off one side, you could potentially configure to do it with one filter. I would use plastic vs. cloth bags on the bottom. I’m pretty sure cloth would continue to allow dust to push through.

With the extra HP now, I would reconsider 6 or even 5 inch drops would be superior to 4” where you can accommodate it on your machines.

View alittleoff's profile

alittleoff

449 posts in 1116 days


#12 posted 11-11-2017 06:49 PM

I’m in the process of running pvc pipe for my new system. I’m going from nothing to a 3hp pflux system. I’ve run the main 6” trunk line and a couple of 4” drops and can tell you that the 6” is the way to go. Run 6 in. As far as you can before downsizing to 4”. I’ve got my saw hooked up now and the pflux is really working great. It gets all the dust from below the saw and most that was coming out the top without a blade guard. As for the 1.5 hp goes I really don’t know but whatever you do try to keep the duct as large as possible with minimal turns.
Gerald

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