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Dust collection - design and build

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Forum topic by Zatara posted 10-10-2017 04:28 PM 1596 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Zatara

15 posts in 11 days


10-10-2017 04:28 PM

Topic tags/keywords: dust collection dust deputy shop vac cable management small shop rolling cart question

Background:

I’m building (up) my dust collection system for use with my power tools. I have recently come into a planer and SCMS which both throw a lot of dust. I have had a band saw and have been reasonably happy with my setup, but now it’s time to get serious about layout and function.

Last year or so I purchased a shop vac and later added a cyclone and tub as it quickly became apparent that the filter would just clog on the vac when using it with the band saw. I don’t know if I over bought on the shop vac – but at 6.5 (listed) peak hp I would collapse 5gal plastic buckets and trash cans.

Upgrading to a yellow salvage drum solved the collapsing problem as well as increased my ability to seal and empty the system with ease. However, now I’m looking at a 2’x4’ cart that sprawls out quickly in my small basement shop.

I want to also look into split runs for the inlet hoses to see if it’s possible to pull dust from two ports on the band saw and the miter saw. It seems like the split hose setups I’ve seen use two sizes – small for under the table and a larger run for the bottom door for example.

Summary/ TL;DR:

I want to arrange my shop vac and dust cyclone rig on a vertical cart that fits inside a standard door jam so I can move it from room to room and keep my valuable floor space clear. I would also like to add cable and hose management as part of the design.

I want to test multiple outlet setups on the band saw and the miter saw for direct and general dust collection.

Ideas and feedback welcome.


16 replies so far

View Tootles's profile

Tootles

803 posts in 2285 days


#1 posted 10-11-2017 12:48 AM

You might find this video interesting.

-- I may have lost my marbles, but I still have my love of woodworking

View Holbs's profile

Holbs

1689 posts in 1812 days


#2 posted 10-11-2017 01:56 AM

I tried something for my Bosch dual bevel compound (non-sliding) miter saw that has easily caught 98% of everything. Simply 6” flex duct with metal wire, cut in half, wrap around pivot arm, whalla. It has falls off every so often cause have not designed something to keep it in place (sometimes use clamps, sometimes not). It flexes when pivot up and down. I considered a hood but all hoods seemed to be super large and that’s not something I wanted.
I’ll have to take a pic. Thought I did have one posted up here somewhere, but don’t see one.

-- The Carpenter Bee is derived from the Ancient Greek word wood-cutter

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

116325 posts in 3360 days


#3 posted 10-11-2017 02:01 AM

Welcome to Ljs Seems like you going to expense and trouble when just a normal DC unit will do the job. Harbor Freight sells one for $199 with one of it’s 20% off coupons you can get one for $160.These units have very good reviews and I’ve used one for years and has worked very well for me.

https://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-industrial-5-micron-dust-collector-97869.html

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

1240 posts in 1170 days


#4 posted 10-11-2017 02:18 AM

Can’t help you with your DC decision since I don’t have one but I highly recommend that you get a Cleanstream filter for your shopvac. They are definitely more pricey than the regular disposable filters but can be cleaned dozens of times before you have to replace them. I bought the wet/dry version so that I could wash the filter with a hose. Mine is almost 4 years old and still going strong. I’ve never noticed that the filter is clogging to the extent that I lose suction. I only clean the filter after filling my 5 gallon separator bucket 5 of 6 times (if I feel like it).

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View Zatara's profile

Zatara

15 posts in 11 days


#5 posted 10-11-2017 02:21 AM

I like that video! I feel like it would be better to house the vac up top and the bucket below. Then you could have the hose reel in front and lower – so the center of gravity would keep the unit from falling over.

View Tootles's profile

Tootles

803 posts in 2285 days


#6 posted 10-11-2017 03:02 AM

You might be right about changing the arrangement of the vac, collector & hose – interesting idea. I would guess that the trick is to get your hands on the tree items and compare what they weight – taking into account how the weight of the collector will change as it fills. Possibly, however, it is just a matter of enough concrete at the bottom and everything else is secondary.

-- I may have lost my marbles, but I still have my love of woodworking

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

1770 posts in 2727 days


#7 posted 10-11-2017 03:44 PM

If you really are considering getting serious about dust collection, you need to look to dust collectors, even if it’s just a Harbor Freight unit with a replacement bag.

Vacuums have their place and will help on things like band and table saws, but you need volume for honest collection for them for efficient collection. The planer and jointer throw off to much and for a vacuum.

A vacuum needs to be relatively near what it’s pulling sawdust and chips from. Piping it with Y’s and things will be an expensive disappointment. Even small collectors with six inch hoses are pushed to the limit that way.

_
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the cyclone was a good investment for the vac. I added a Dust Deputy to mine about seven years ago and never looked back.

A twenty foot hose from the cyclone in front of a five gallon Ridged work fine off my sanders. The long hose reduced pull, then I drilled holes in the end and fitted a tight fitting piece of plastic pipe, with a section cut out lengthwise, on the end so I could dampen the flow more. That is so the vacuum doesn’t pull the little sanders too tight against the wood and slow the random orbit.

Anyway, it keeps my discs clean and dust out of the air, and I don’t have to clean the filter often.

My sixteen gallon will go up for sale, since the cyclone keeps the filter efficient so long I don’t have a fast drop off in efficiency.

View Bob5103's profile

Bob5103

71 posts in 617 days


#8 posted 10-11-2017 04:58 PM

Like you I have limited floor space, and for years I used a shop vac to handle some of DC for my tools. I hated tripping over the vac. I installed a central vacuum and ran duct to the tools. Mine is ducted for my drill press, miter saw, router table, drum sander and oscillating sander. It also handles the DC for my portable tools, general clean up and I ran ducting into the garage area to clean our cars. Since these are rated for cleaning houses and long duct runs they are stronger than the typical shop vac, and I see them on Craigslist all the time for less than $300.00. The only downside is the ducting is proprietary to the vacs, and usually has to be purchased through a central vac dealer. The good news is that the ducting is very reasonably priced. I bought the blast gates through Rockler. I use a Dust Deputy and I haven’t had to clean the filter in over 2 years.

Just another option.

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2662 posts in 1264 days


#9 posted 10-11-2017 05:27 PM

In the long run, I think you’re better off with dedicated DC for each machine if using a shop vac. You will spend a lot of time running ducts that in the end won’t really function all that well because a shop vac it just doesn’t have the CFM’s to pull very far.

You can pick up used shop vacs quite cheaply on Craigslist and you can make your own small cyclones. I recently saw someone put up a link to a $15 cyclone can’t remember where tho.

All said and done, A1jim is giving you good advice. A planer will quickly fill up even a 30 gallon bin, which btw requires much more than a shop vac.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Zatara's profile

Zatara

15 posts in 11 days


#10 posted 10-12-2017 01:12 AM

Thanks for the replies! I really like the idea of having some money to throw at this project – but I want to keep it DIY and cheap right now. I will probably exceed just buying a low end HF dust collector – but I will be using this for general shop cleaning and out of the shop upstairs during remodeling projects.

Having looked into the suggestions put out above I’ve refined my design and goals as follows:

- standing unit with vac on top sucking up from cyclone with collection at bottom
- modifying the vac to suck from the bottom middle so all extra dust falls down into collection drum.
— this may involve using a plastic carboy as a funnel (like a 5gal water jug without the handle – think home brewing)
- cyclone bolted to lid of airtight drum w/ easy disconnect for emptying
- large drum to limit emptying

I hope to SketchUp some plans and post them here – but I may just cut some wood and get started. I’ll keep updating as I progress

- Ed

View retfr8flyr's profile

retfr8flyr

360 posts in 1452 days


#11 posted 10-12-2017 03:13 AM

If you are going to build it yourself then skip the HF unit, with the 10 inch impeller, it just doesn’t have the CFM needed. I would get this blower from Penn State https://www.pennstateind.com/store/DC250SEMB.html It has enough power to handle what you want to do now, is reasonably priced and can possibly work with additions to your shop in the future. Get this blower, the Oneida SDD XL https://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD002030AXL&CatId={17F46883-40BB-471E-982F-E5F28583241B} add a filter and a collection drum and you will be set.

-- Earl

View jonah's profile

jonah

1264 posts in 3081 days


#12 posted 10-12-2017 03:45 AM



I tried something for my Bosch dual bevel compound (non-sliding) miter saw that has easily caught 98% of everything. Simply 6” flex duct with metal wire, cut in half, wrap around pivot arm, whalla. It has falls off every so often cause have not designed something to keep it in place (sometimes use clamps, sometimes not). It flexes when pivot up and down. I considered a hood but all hoods seemed to be super large and that s not something I wanted.
I ll have to take a pic. Thought I did have one posted up here somewhere, but don t see one.

- Holbs


Please do post that pic. I can’t stand how much dust my miter saw produces, and mine is also a non slider.

View Zatara's profile

Zatara

15 posts in 11 days


#13 posted 10-12-2017 05:43 AM



If you are going to build it yourself then skip the HF unit, with the 10 inch impeller, it just doesn t have the CFM needed. I would get this blower from Penn State https://www.pennstateind.com/store/DC250SEMB.html It has enough power to handle what you want to do now, is reasonably priced and can possibly work with additions to your shop in the future. Get this blower, the Oneida SDD XL https://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD002030AXL&CatId={17F46883-40BB-471E-982F-E5F28583241B} add a filter and a collection drum and you will be set.

- retfr8flyr

I would love to have that money to set this up – but after a decent filter that can handle that volume of air I think I’d just buy the Laguna DC and have something my wife wouldn’t divorce me for bolting to the wall.

I checked out my shop vac – a craftsman – and I think I can rig a chopped carboy to cover the filter. The big question is what size internal diameter mouth the carboy has – if it’s too small it will restrict the airflow too much beyond the 2-1/2 shop vac hose.

For the tower I think I’m going to build a three or four sided tower and use my router to make circles to support the various components. Four sides may look better – but three legs always sit flat…

Onward!

View Zatara's profile

Zatara

15 posts in 11 days


#14 posted 10-13-2017 12:42 AM

Progress Notes:

I’ve protyped a vertical unit and am really happy with the initial results.

This was the first time since high school using a router, and I started by making a template to cut the circles. It was surprisingly fun, but super dusty!

I started by cutting the top of the vac from the bottom to leave behind a tapered circle to which my plywood ‘doughnut’ could fall into. I had to cut around the existing inlet and plug it up so the vac would draw from the bottom. I then cut out the inside of the circle forming a doughnut shape where I could mount the plastic carboy. Screws are accessible on the inside of the carboy and the outside of the vac so it was easy to assemble in stages and clip back together.

I mad a lift so to speak using the first ‘doughnut’ I made that did not have acceptable tolerances for the vac. The top of the unit is quite stable with the three legs – which are only attached with one screw each to the bottom of the stand and not at all to the top. I will make a final version of these that have some taper to them and a little foot to hang onto the lip of the bottom salvage drum. By the top of the unit, I will secure the legs flush to the carboy to prevent collapse.

Problems:

There is sufficient suction to collapse the plastic carboy if the hose gets clogged. I think a “better” build would use a metal 5gal bucket with clamp-on style lid. You would miss out on being able to visually see the filter and any particulate that makes its way to the upper chamber however. For me, that’s the fun of this build. My solution will be to make the second version of the lift include support for the carboy to prevent it from collapsing.

I think the clear plastic of a competitor cyclone would look better than the opaque plastic of the dust deputy. If I had to buy another, or if I hade more money for a second, I would go this route.

Thanks for all the feedback! Suggestions welcome.

-Ed

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

1240 posts in 1170 days


#15 posted 10-13-2017 11:42 AM

I like this! Being able to see inside vac canister is brilliant. Maybe you could make a couple of plywood rings that you could put inside it to provide support so that it doesn’t collapse when the hose is blocked.

Don’t forget to checkout the Cleanstream filter upgrade. It’ll save you money even in the short haul. Clean it twice instead of replace and you will break even compared to the disposable filters.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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