Posting Multiple Projects at Once - I don't like it

Its a lot easier to post several at once depending on how you have pics stored….How about increasing the max limit of the scroller to 30 :)

Plus, I use the RSS feed and none escape my gaze :)

My biggest pet peeve is the roll the dice and clicking too fast, then not being able to go back one! Kills me :)

JC

-- Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -Carl Sagan

Good suggestion but with over 3000 members posting projects, they aren’t usually going to be on the home page for long. I just have to get up 20 minutes earlier in the morning to look at all of the new posts with my morning coffee.
I love this site. There is so much talent to sponge off of.

-- Hutch ...Montana ___ Life is a mystery to live, not a problem to solve! ___

You know, that’s a good point. I’ve thought the same thing about blog entries. But like TheCaver says, this may be hard to enforce because some people want to maximize their computer time and just get all the posting out of the way at once, while they’re on a roll.

I also use the feed so I see every single title that comes across.

-- Eric at http://adventuresinwoodworking.com

Oops, I just did this. It is a good thought now that you bring it up. At the same time though, like Eric said, I tend to take a bunch of pictures at once since I am still new here and trying to get some content on the site. Once I get caught up then it will be projects posted one at a time.

By the way, I just added the project feed as well. Great idea!

-- Check out my blog and podcast "The Renaissance Woodworker" at www.rogersfinewoodworking.com/blog

When I first became a Lumberjock(ette) 57 days ago, I posted alot of my projects at the same time. I was so excited by this place and all the great people and wonderful comments I would receive. However , Do you know why I did? It was because I WAS new and I did not know any better. I got caught up in the moment and just did not realize the amount of posted projects etc. I never meant any disrespect by it, nor harm. I just bet that maybe there are others out there that simply don’t know or realize that others projects are being removed too soon by their posting of more than one. I know that I was fortunate enough to have a fellow LJer (who will remain nameless) be so kind as to point this out to me. Maybe when one joins, a simple mention of this would be good.

-- Allison, Northeastern Ca. Remember, Amateurs built the Ark. Professionals built the Titanic!

I use the RSS feed and view the projects that look interesting to me in the description. It really doesn’t matter to me how many projects are posted by a person in a day.

-- DaveH - Boise, Idaho - “How hard can it be? It's only wood!”

Leon, I think the growing pains of the site will make it hard to enforce such a thing, and alas the days that something didn’t immediately move to page five and beyond are behind us. Also I remember first learning about the site and the absolute fever to get my stuff posted and up for view. Pretty heady to see your projects up on the World Wide Web! I wouldn’t want to stop anyone from that kind of an experience and the excitement of getting it all posted.

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

There is always the safety of your own website too.
They are relatively cheap today and can give you hours of fun .
When I need additional info here I just use the seach feature and if you posted something that interests me at the time, I can review it and comment or ask a question if I feel the need.

cheers
Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

It’s nice for me being on the other side of the world, because when I post something, you all are fast asleep and I get hours of exposure on the front page. Muah hah hah hah!!!

-- Eric at http://adventuresinwoodworking.com

I have to admit that I never visit the home page except to check on stats.
I’m a ‘PULSE” addict

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Guilty! I posted several of my projects in a row.

A. —- I was new & wanted my projects to be in there with everybody else.

B. —- I sized & uploaded a bunch of photos at one time, because it’s easier to do it that way.

C. —- Some of the projects are part of a set—so they relate to each other & I could explain details in each as those photos highlighted a particular feature.

D. —- I had some “down” time and could spend it here,at the computer, sharing my passion with like minded people.

E. —- I wanted to find any other woodworkers here who share my love of the Arts and Crafts style. Responders to my posts made it easier for me to check out their projects & add them to my buddies list so as to find like minded woodworkers.

It is nice to see your project up on the front page. As a late comer to the party I have no experience of having my pride & joy hang up there for more than a day (or a few hours) I think the layout of this site is pretty darn good. I wish there were more than 15 projects listed in the new projects banner, This is where I always start browsing. I usually check 3-4 times a day & it is mildly disconcerting to not be able to see all the new posts at one time. I check at 9-10 pm & by 6am. there are more than 15 new posts! It’s so easy to click on see all, so no big deal. Or you can click on Pulse & select Projects & see all the posts. Policing a policy that limits the number of posts at one time sounds like it would be hard to keep up with.

-- http://www.grandprairiewoodworks.com http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=6453794

I do it, put multiple projects in one post. Or “worse” yet slip pictures of my work in on other peoples posts. In my opinion that is one of the flaws of this site. The fact that you have to be the one of the last posters or you are “yesterdays news”. There is no standing gallery where people can see your work and then find you, it is the other way around, you can click my profile and see my past posts/projects. That is probably just a pet peeve of mine, but since we are talking about what bugs us I thought I would share my opinion.

-- Urban logger, http://nelsonwoodworks.biz/

Well, I have been guilty too. I was told when I first logged on to this site that folks here like to see projects, so I posted them. I don’t use the home page either. I hit the pulse button and I get all the current posts. This is a great site and I enjoy it a lot. Sorry if I offended you with multiple projects.

John

-- John -- Racine, WI -- Woodworking..."It's not just a Hobby, it's an Adventure"

Progress Report…

1) It appears that Tim and I are the only ones that use the home page to look at projects. Since no one else uses the home page, I’m the only one that is bothered by this. That surprised me.

2) I also use the rss feed to my iGoogle page but I prefer to actually go to the LJ home page. I can pull up my iGoogle page and see oneliners about projects and pulse or I can just pull up the LJ home page and see everything.

3) Several people mentioned enforcement. Tim even called it policing! My original post suggested that we add a notice/comment/suggestion to the project posting page. Nothing about enforcement or police. Kinda like “Give a Hoot. Don’t Polute”.

4) John, I’m not offended. I was just stating my preferrence. I’d like it more if people posted one project at a time. As a new poster, if the posting site had a suggestion that you post one project a day you might have chosen to just post one a day. Then again you might have posted them all the same day. NO ENFORCEMENT and NO POLICE!

5) I don’t understand the convenience of posting multiple projects. I probably have 15-20 projects that I have NOT posted on LJ. I take photos of all my projects and the photos are on my hard drive. I could post them as LJ projects at any time. I haven’t had a compelling need to post them all at once.

-- Leon -- Houston, TX - " I create all my own designs and it looks like it "

I couldn’t stop myself … It’s called “courtesy”. Anyone who visits our site that is not a member sees the “home page” ................

-- Odie, Confucius say, "He who laughs at one's self is BUTT of joke". http://woodstermangotwood.blogspot.com/ (my funny blog)

I’m in the “don’t visit the home page” group also. I just use PULSE and select NEVER to see what’s new.
In that case I see everything you post. Now I may be too busy to always comment on things I try to
do my best.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

I think we should appeal to Martin to at the very least make the homepage scroller at least last 30 projects…that would help…..

JC

-- Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -Carl Sagan

TheCaver, although I use the project scroller on the home page, I don’t think we need to increase the number of projects scrolled. You can always click on the Projects button and scroll through 12 at at time.

My concern is the latest three projects shown on the home page. Currently projects stay on the home page about 3-4 hours on average if projects are posted one at a time. Posting multiple projects at once can shorten this time considerably. In fact, if you post more than three projects at once, you knock some of your own projects off the home page almost immediately.

Gary, I tried your method of using PULSE and NEVER and it didn’t reallly work for me. Obviously, it worked. I just didn’t like having to click on each project to see it. For me, I’d rather “see” the projects then click on the ones I’m most interested in for more details. I do use PULSE to keep up with FORUMS, BLOGS, and REVIEWS.

Different strokes for different folks, eh.

-- Leon -- Houston, TX - " I create all my own designs and it looks like it "

I’m not sure if I totally understand the perspectives… but have you tried the “Projects” page? You can scan all the projects, from recent postings backwards.. and then choose which ones you want to look at.
(It’s the “view all” link on the home page, located by the pictures of the projects so visitors can easily check them out, without knowing the site) and is also in the tool bars at the top of the pages.)

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I hear ya Deb. I usually check out the home page and if I have time I just go right into the gallery and see all the posted projects of late. That way I can quickly scan all the images and then check out the ones that catch my eye further. But I see your point Leon. I have never posted multiple projects at once but i have had my projects knocked off the home page by someone who posted three or four projects at once. I think for the most part people like to post their work not so much for constructive criticism ( unless they specifically ask for it) but more for a little recognition, and some props from the people on here. It always feels good to have anyone notice your hard work and give you a little pat on the back. And it is kinda fun to see your stuff on the home page, and it’s even more of a cheap thrill when I log on and my stuff comes up on the rollover! I try as hard as I can to give comments and crits to all the projects I can….but i have to admit…I like to use the gallery as a source of inspiration…and a place to glom allot of great ideas!

-- David, South Windsor, CT "I love the smell of sawdust in the morning"

I never thought about why I post something…
I’ve tried my hand at woodworking.. I’m a member here and that means I can post my projects and write some blogs about my experiences… and so I do…. and I’ve never seen my work on the home page ‘cause I never go there.. darn.. what am I missing??!!

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Leon, It’s not just you. I have the same feelings about it. I usually go to the project page to see what is new, but even with 12 projects on the first page, you can get bumped to page 2 really quickly when people post multiple projects. I’m not going to lie about it…. I like people to see my projects, and I like to hear what they have to say about them. And I’ve posted enough projects to know that if you get bumped to page 2 pretty quickly, you are going to get a lot less exposure and a lot fewer comments.

Now I don’t want anyone to think I’ve been offended or angry about it. I understand that it is such a great site that when people discover it, they want to start posting projects. It’s only natural. If I go back and check, I’m sure I probably did it too. I agree it would be nice if folks didn’t post more than one project per day. As far as enforcement, I’m no real web designer, but I think the site could be coded to allow no more than one project post per member per day.

And I also agree with you about not quite understanding why some folks think it ie easier to post multiple projects.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

im not posting any projects today . any one wants my spot ill start the bidding at 5.00 . do i hear 550? lol

I must be the odd man out cause I really don’t care .
I post things to help people or give them ideas or to get some inputif I get stuck or muck up.
There is a powerful search engine attached to this forum so if the postings are tagged well they are easy to retrieve.

I know if I do a good job and when I don’t so I have little need to get recognition for each entry.

I know some guys who only post their projects in hope of compliments or embellishing their name in wood working. Quite often they will post on as many as 15 or 20 woodworking sites.

They are never here to help out a guy or gal who is stuck or welcome a new member or donate a link for somebody that’s struggling with a job.

Often they have not even made a contribution to the welfare of this site.

For me that’s posting for all the wrong reasons.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

I find it very interesting to hear about everyone’s way of using this site and their reasons behind being here.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Allison, you completely captured why I started this topic. Sorry I missed your reply when it was first posted.

My thought was that it never occurred to the people posting multiple projects that it impacted other users. I thought if they knew then they might choose to change their ways. I never envisioned any sort of enforcement or policing. My original post suggested we add a notice on the project posting page that asked that only one project be posted per day. Seemed like a small thing to ask.

MsDebbieP, I also found it interesting how this topic vectored into a discussion about how people use the site. I even investigated some of the other ways people used the site to see if I was missing something. I think it is a credit to Martin that he created a site that can appeal to so many people using it in so many ways.

-- Leon -- Houston, TX - " I create all my own designs and it looks like it "

I’m afraid I felt the same way as Leon, if you finally finish a piece and you want to show it on this site it is discouraging when it is pushed off in 4 or 6 hours, because someone uses several entries. I feel it is only courteous to at least use only one a week. Many of us have loades of past projects that we could put on the site. I will go one further than Leon, sometimes I wonder about posting half finished projects, wouldn’t it be better to finish it then show it? You can always show it completed with the half finished pictures with it. But then again maybe I’m just a crankey old man.

-- Tom D

I think Leon has a point, there are alot of complicated high end projects with many hours invested that get posted only to get bumped the same day by something that doesn’t intrest me. But I have to stop and think, it may be of interest to someone. If I miss a day or two of LJ I always go back and check the projects posted for the whole time. It would be nice to have a longer trailer than 15 projects.

-- DocK, WV

Don’t know if this post had anything to do with it but I noticed that there are 15 individual projects on the home page scroller tonight.

I like it.

-- Leon -- Houston, TX - " I create all my own designs and it looks like it "

for me i don’t see much how you can post more that one at a time. usually i don’t put out projects that fast to post more than one in a day. i guess its mostly just the newer members who want to put themselves out there and put up all the projects they’ve ever done.

Wow – who knew. I’ve never even considered how long a project stays on the first page. I just scroll through all of them anyway and check out each one to I get to one that I’ve already seen. So many great projects – so little space/time.

-- Bill - "Suit yourself and let the rest be pleased." http://www.cajunpen.com/

When I start posting projects, I will do so only one at a a time. That seems perfectly reasonable and fair to me.

-- If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait until it's free! PJ O'Rourke

I can admit I’ve posted several projects at a time. I had been putting off posting some older stuff and was in the mood to do it one night. had no intention of being an attention hog, just wanted to get some “history” up for a few friends and anyone else that might be following my progress… (crickets chirping)

anyway, as others have mentioned, I start at the home page and typically jump to the projects page and scroll through page after page until I reach items I’ve seen before. then I use the pulse page to see what the hot topics are for the day.

with the number of members that are joining, even if people post a single project per day I think “home page face time” is going to be limited anyway and therefor makes it a non-issue… in my opinion.

-- www.darrylmasterson.com ~ www.darrylmasterson.etsy.com

Those new to the site will likely post several projects on their first visit. This doesn’t bother me at all. With over 3300 member it’s highly unlikely that a post will last in the top 15 over the course of a day. When I look at the site I normally just click on the ‘view all’ and browse through the projects until I am caught up. When someone has a set of items that go together I would prefer they be together so it’s easy to see them as a set.

-- Owen Johnson - aka IowaWoodcrafter

I would again reiterate to Martin that we should expand that max 15 number to at least last 30…..

JC

-- Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -Carl Sagan

We don’t want to discourage anyone , just because he’s an exuberant new member.

I think that person will stick around Lumberjocks longer, & be more faithful, if he has a chance to exhibit more.

I’ve seen some people post one project, & never hear from them again.

When I first joined I kind of held back, because I was afraid of overdoing it, & hogging space.

At the time there were only about 120 members.

So don’t let anyone try, & stop you from posting projects.

KEEP ON POSTING PROJECTS!!

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

Dick, I get the impression that you would have to live to be 120 to have enough time to post all your projects. LOL

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

That’s a good idea Charlie! Sign me up.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

Ha HA !! I’m working towards that.

I still have a number of projects laying in the weeds waiting to pounce on Lumberjocks!

When no one is looking. ;o)

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

Maybe we should have a contest to see who can post the most projects. Kinda like the leap year reviews thing.

In the interest of getting the most possible projects posted…

• I think we could forgo the project description part and just let the photos speak for themselves. It really takes too much time to actually describe a project. Especially if you ramble on about your motivation or challenges and problems you had.
• You can break up multiple items into separate projects. A pen and pencil set for example could be two projects. A set of napkin rings could be 6, 8 , or 12 projects. A chess set could be 33 separate projects.
• Projects wouldn’t have to be complete so you can post progress reports. This acts like a multiplier. A single project with 3 progress reports would get you 4 projects.
• Wouldn’t really have to be a project. It could be a blog or an advertisement, or an announcement. Pretty much anything would qualify.

On second thought, that’s probably a bad idea. Those kind of projects would really diminish the overall quality of the site. Never mind ;)

BTW – The above is in jest. lol

Please don’t take it seriously.

-- Leon -- Houston, TX - " I create all my own designs and it looks like it "

I think a limit of one project a day is a great idea.

-- I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

My 2 cents. I’m guilty of posting multiple projects on one day. Especially when I first joined. I was encouraged by several people to post what I had done. With that said, I, like many others, could have posted a whole lot more, but I did only the ones I really liked myself.

I really don’t mind when other people post multiple projects either. I don’t want to discourage anyone from boasting or showing their pride in their work. With that said, I agree that people should not be posting simply as a way to garner business. If you post you should also be giving feedback and responses to other jocks. We are a community that relies on each other for kudoos, suggestions, etc., and while making business contacts is not prohibited (it should not be), to post only for that reason I think is not right. There are several jocks who have businesses woodworking and I’m sure have this site linked to theirs, but they also contribute in other ways – and I think that’s great.

I post projects still, but I do most of my entries on my blog which is where I get most of my feedback. As a novice woodworker, this site has been a godsend to me. I’ve learned so much and feel it a privilege to be associated with all of you.

But long and short, I don’t think that we need to keep people from posting more than one project a day.

that’s my 2 cents – spend it wisely. :-)

-- You can't get a hug from Facebook.

Good topic…I have not read every response…but I think I get the jist…I also use the Homepage and Project page most of the time…I think the idea of a simple statement on the page/place where you post your project a simple statement like: “Out of courtesy to all members please limit your new porject postings to __ a day.”

No hard and fast “rule”...just a statement that is clear…but I disagree on the limits to project descriptions…you dont have to read them (i know you meant a lot of that in “jest”)...For me…posting projects is a BIG deal…as a beginner I am really proud when I post a project…and I want to tell the story…for others this is a lifelong hobby/profession and making that perfect mitere cut is old hand…and no big deal…

So good points made on all sides…discussion is great…as for me…I am dying to post my next several projects since I am working on 3 at once…but…out of courtesy…will post one a day even if I finish them all at once…

The biggest problem i see (and it is really exciting) is that all communitys change over time as they grow…As a teacher I have worked in small schools where everyone knows each other…and now I teach in a school of 2600 and I dont even know all the teachers…there is a different feel…as I approach my one year…I am excited to know LJ;s has grown soo much…and that I have been a part of that…but as we get more and more Lj’s even one project post a day will vanish from the homepage before we blink…

Ok…off to the workshop to work on the multiple projects…AHHH SPRING BREAK….this will be my 4th straight day of wood working…yippeeeeee…

-- Matt, Napa, CA...fun is beautiful...just trying to have some fun...

Napaman, it is clear to me now that SARCASM does NOT work in text.

• I LOVE long project descriptions. I’m interested in the motivation, design challenges, problems and solutions. I appreciate people that take the time to SHARE their experience with fellow LJ’s. In fact, I’d be less annoyed by multiple posts if the poster took some time to describe their projects. I’m NOT a fan of project posts that just say “Another bowl, another box, another whatever, etc”.
• I think that sets or groups of things should be posted together in one project.
• I think project progress should be handled in blogs. Seems like a better fit. Plenty of room for discussion, lots of photos and even video.
• I think that projects should be PROJECTS. NOT blogs, advertisments, annoucements, etc.

All the bulleted items in my last post were pure sarcasm based on actual posts from the project page.

Betsy, I never asked for any inforcement. I though it would be ok to ASK people to not post many projects at once. The following is quoted from my OP…

How about a adding a notice on the project posting page that reminds people that it would be courteous to only post one project a day.

As always, this is just my opinion. I hope that no one is offended.

-- Leon -- Houston, TX - " I create all my own designs and it looks like it "

Very good post, I hate to be negative but I agree. I use the Home page all the time and I LOVE this site.

I log on 4 – 5 times a day.

leonmcd, I think the idea of waiting to post is not too much to ask, afterall it’s not like we can make the projects that fast.

Or am I out of kilter here?

-- Keep your tools sharp, your mind sharper and the coffee hot

lol…its funny how I totally saw the sarcasm of bullets 2, 3 &4…but missed it on bullet #1…

Again….great dialog…good idea…good tone to the discussion—-very agreed there should be no official rule…just a statment as you post…

but as you said Leon…this is “just my opinion”...

-- Matt, Napa, CA...fun is beautiful...just trying to have some fun...

Looks like I missed another opportunity at sarcasm.

I should have included posting the same project more than once. I’m NOT talking about posting progress on a project but posting the same completed project more than once. Almost unlimited potential for upping your project count with this strategy.

As always, this is just my opinion. I hope that no one is offended.

-- Leon -- Houston, TX - " I create all my own designs and it looks like it "

I don’t guess you want to mention any names? LOL!

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

leon i cant help but ask what would be the motivation for upping your project count ? im a little slow catching on to the ins and outs ! i guess maybe if it didnt stay on the home page long enough to generate the expected number of comments you might want to give it another go . lol

I try to limit my posting to no more then once a week and then try and post more then one item in my project posting so as to make sure I use up the 3 spaces for photos.

Another thought …. on the home page …. newer project postings could automatically scroll across the screen. still show three at a time, but slowly ,with maybe 25 in a continuous cycle. Martin could also limit and randomly select the order of the scrolled photos so as to not be always the same order. I’ve seen this in other websites,ie, ebay gallery, devaintart and others. For a programer it probably isn’t that hard to do once you find the code.

-- work from your heart and your spirit will live forever

< Sarcasm ON >
Maybe we could tie posting projects to making comments. Let’s say that for every 10 comments you can post a small project a small box for example. For a 100 comments you could post a table. Or you could save your comment points so that when you got to 250 you could post something more intricate and then at 500 possibly built-ins or cabinetry. This way we can ensure a certain level of feedback while putting some restraint on the project postings. As the practice develops, we could set up a way to trade comment points with other lumberjocks who didn’t have enough points to post their latest project. There could be a whole economy based on comments and projects.
< /Sarcasm OFF >

Actually, I don’t have a problem with multiple projects other than I’d prefer the opportunity to digest one project before moving on to the next. As it is, it is impossible to keep up with all the projects and posting multiples makes it easier to miss some.

The has been a most interesting discussion.

-- Working at Woodworking http://www.VillageLaneFurniture.com

hey Russel… I’ve got a few comment points saved up.. want to buy some for oh.. say $100??

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

deb it looks like you will own the front page for a while !! lol

MsDebbie, that sounds a little more Black Market than working economy. Although, there’s always a need for a bank and it looks like you could underwrite quite a few jocks with your stockpile.

-- Working at Woodworking http://www.VillageLaneFurniture.com

Well ~ I’m guilty. I joined the other day and wanted to get a bunch of my stuff on my page. So I had my day of fame but it’s long since been replaced by new and great stuff. So I just spent considerable time reading this page : ya know Leon ~ if you havn’t got any other peave in life than this ~ either you’re not spending enough time in the shop or you’re just a grumpy guy with too much sawdust in yer coffee.

-- Islandwoodworker@Gmail.com

I have a tendency to work on several projects at one time. I get a little bored or stuck on a particular part of one, I move to the next and come back to the other when I’m ready. To add to that, I do a lot of small projects that can get completely quickly. So I have a lot of projects. I like to post them when they get done so I get the feedback from the other LJ’s to tell me not only “good job” but try this or that.

I’m wondering if there is a way to segment the projects page into boxes/small projects/outdoor projects/ cabinetry, etc. Maybe that would help. Just an idea.

-- You can't get a hug from Facebook.

I always go back and look at all of them anyway. I vote for post em if you got em. (as many as you want). That is funny Russel. but some of these projects are so amazing, it would take all of Debs points to post them. (and we would miss out on seeing them)

-- A thing of beauty is a joy forever...

I too just spent a lot of time reading this discussion and agree with mrtrim and david. If you are that concerned about the time your project is in the limelight I think you are missing the point and purpose of this site entirely. I have big shoulders so tell me if I’m wrong and no hard feelings will be rendered but a multiple post by new members should be expected. They have been on their own and want to know if their time and effort will be appreciated in a woodworking community including all levels of skill, background, and experience. Also, posting a project is just the tip of the iceberg on this site. It is a foot in the door to meet and talk shop with some of the most savvy and entertaining individuals in the trade.

-- bbqKing, Lawrenceville

I haven’t posted yet, probably will not as i don’t want to offend leon. but I will continue to view others postings,
I came here to learn more of wood working, nevermind.

-- Pretzel L8agn