Sketchup! ...your input/opinion please? :)

Hmmm…. I’m in the “tried and found it too frustrating” category. Your example above is something I didn’t know. Sounds like I could benefit greatly from this article you’re writing!

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

I wouldn’t say that I’ve given up on Sketchup. It’s just that I’ve been using an illustration program to do orthographic [old school] views and haven’t given Sketchup its due. It’s not that the learning curve is too steep but something else I have to sit with a spell and darn-it I do get tired of sitting in front of this puppy.

You use what you know and while I yearn for the way cool 3D stuff, I keep going back to Adobe Illustrator because of the facility I have with that program. I’m thinking I need to take an online course because Sketchup files have become just way too ubiquitous to ignore.

always,
J.C.

-- "Imagination is more important than knowledge" -- Albert Einstein

I didn’t give up, but I was kind of frustrated when I started using it. The application of some of the tools are not intuitive. There is help available, but you sort of need to have a clue before you go searching, like many programs’ help files. I’m still only scratching the surface of what it can do, but know enough now to draw some basics.

-- Robb

Hey Ryan, good subject.

I found the Push Pull tool easy to use. Then came the Tape Ruler and then the Rotate tool. I was soon easily able to create Components for building a project. The hardest thing that I found was the Move tool of all things. That is, moving these components around (in 3D space) and connecting them where I wanted to connect them to create a table or a chair. I was familiar with other CAD programs and the way that they connected (welded) components, and SU is a bit different here. In fact, this is still where I fall down. I have not found any helpful videos on doing this sort of thing. Most training seems to concentrate on carving an object out of a block, not putting an object together.

Steve

-- Stevethepeeve -- I'm no rocket surgeon

Steve just nailed my downfall. I can draw the components, but for the life of me I cannot get the hang of moving things into place. I think once I can do that I can learn some of the cooler aspects, but I can’t seem to get past that point.

-- Maplewood, MN

Ryan,

I have had it about a year now and really have made no significant progress but don’t know how to respond to your question. One of the problems I had initially with the software was in understanding the change that alt and shift have on the tools. I didn’t really get an understanding of this until I viewed Adian Chopra’s videos and started reading his book.

I guess that at this stage I am just not knowledgeable enough about Sketchup to really know what my problems are in order to give you a top 5 list.

Wish I could be of more help.

-- With God's help all things are possible- even woodworking. Woodworking is not just a hobby, it is an (expletive deleted) expensive hobby.

Advice:
1.Use components and groups.

2.Don’t worry about drawing all of the hidden joinery. Who cares. Just use it for fleshing out your shapes, proportions and designs. You can get hung up on drawing an 1/8 round-over or a dovetail.

3. Learn the key commands.

-- -John "Do I have to keep typing a smiley? Just assume it's a joke." www.flickr.com/photos/gizmodyne

I have used it, but I find doing things in AutoCAD a lot faster. I have been using it for at least 10
years.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

OK….but I don’t think the magazine would accept that answer in a sketchup article :)

Anybody else have any suggestions for the newbie just sitting down to SU for the first time?

-- If you can't set a good example, at least serve as a horrible warning... www.rarewoodcreations.com

I am a project manager for an architectural firm and use AutoCAD and Revit daily. I found that the learning curve was fairly simple. Every program has its own way of doing certain things and you just have to learn those steps for the software that you are using.

I agree with Gizmo, don’t worry about how your joinery will look just worry about overall proportions and designs.

I highly reccomend watching the online video tutorials. After watching just one video, I was able to complete this model in about 1 1/2 hours.

-- Phillip -- Molino,Florida "I didn't cut it too short, I'm just making changes!"

Yeah, I’m going to chime in on the “move” issue. I still have no idea how to precisely place objects and I’ve been going full tilt with Sketchup since December. I’ve also had some trouble with the “intersect” function – seems as though sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. “Rotate” also takes some getting used to, but I can’t precisely say what the difficulty is. In terms of documentation – I printed the User’s manual, and bought the Dummies book, but a text that focused on just woodworking applications would be most welcome. So here’s my list:

1. How the &*^% do you move things?
2. What is the trick to using the “intersect” function to trace your joinery (e.g. a mortise from a tenon)
3. How to use “follow me” to create a profile on an edge
4. More ideas about how to draw curves that aren’t an arc

Good luck with the article and I’m looking forward to reading it. Let me know if you need a proofreader!

-- "No Board Left Behind"

I have tried it and found that it isn’t intuitive at all.

I have worked with and for other software in the manufacturing world and can say in the right hands I’m sure it is a very powerful piece of software, however the learning curve is more than most want to put into it. I have not given up on it, however it is near the bottom of the heap at this point. Like I said, I have experience with such software both in use of, and eventually working for the software company, and our software was similar in many aspects. Once you knew it, you could do anything, but it took a seasoned user to be really good at it and get the most use out of it. I think it needs to be more user friendly and intuitive and the help files better. The core program is probably very good, people just get too frustrated trying to use it and getting nowhere.

I think that the worst case scenario exists here, a very powerful tool that isn’t explained well enough and/or intuitive enough for new users to get started using easily, and it gets a bad rap due to that, the true power of the tool is never recognized.

I haven’t totally given up though and refuse to be beaten by a software program. I wil eventually get back to it and overcome my obstacles and learn it well. I have seen what it can do and want to become a power user.

Thanks for bringing up such a good topic.

Thanks

Dave

-- Upstate New York -- Do what you love and never work a day in your life.

I’m still trying it… have been ON/OFF for a few weeks.

I’ve been working with computers since 1962…
I find that Sketchup is a very difficult program to learn… perhaps, it’s because it’s SO powerful and there are MANY parts to it… and tricks to learn… as well as the basics.

I’ve gone through the tutorials a few times…

When I think I’m ready to fly with the real thing on a very simple project, I FALL FLAT ON MY FACE not being able to do things that I did during the tutorials! I find FRUSTRATING AS ALL GET OUT (HELL)!

In the past, I’ve always done mechanical drawings using MS Paint… having Ruler markings across top & sides, all I have to do is draw lines, copy/paste, etc. which is really very simple. It has a small number of easy to learn TOOLS… and they are easy to get to and use!

The last time I tried Sketchup, I couldn’t get off the ground… went over to Paint and had it done in a few minutes. I can’t rotate, etc, etc, etc,... BUT I have a workable set of plans!

Someday, maybe the lights will turn on with me & Sketchup and it will work for me… Right now, it’s NOT working for me and I’m getting very tired of wasting my time on it!

I haven’t given up on it completely… just for the time being… until the frustration wears off!

Selecting the Woodworking Template was a pain to find out… and then came the resolution of the Values… and how to use that lil Value BOX!

Good LUCK!

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=1389"

The biggest help for me when drawing a mortise & tenon joint was to turn on the x ray mode so that would be the thing I wish I’d have learned earlier. By turning on the the x-ray mode inferencing will allow you to almost automagically assemble your joints by snapping to with relation to m & t construction.

I think the shareware version of Sketchup is a wonderful little program. I’ve tinkered around with it some, but I’d like to see what 500 bucks gets you in the Sketchup Pro version.

In the mean time, I was raised on AutoCad. I started on version 2.6 back in the late 80’s and have run every version since. Before AutoCad, I worked on manual drafting board for 10 years or so. Most of my stuff is site related work generating topo’s, utility plan and profiles, road design etc.,AutoCad Land Development Desktop mostly, But, I’ve done plenty of plant design using AutoCad Architectural Desktop. It’s just easier for me to use AutoCad since that’s what I’m used to.

Usually I sketch up a concept by hand and then fine tune it with AutoCad to figure out all the critical dimensions.

I don’t know if many share this opinion, but I firmly believe taking a course in manual drafting before starting any kind of CAD software will really give one a leg up on the learning curve. The only problem with that is there aren’t many if any places that offer manual drafting.

-- Carl Rast, Pelion, SC

I just remembered one other thing, changing the model info dialog (model info/units/precision) to something like 1/32 or 1/64 helped me me greatly for ww drawings. I think the default is 1/8th.

I have to agree with all the move tool components above. Also I think a beginner would like to know how to copy things. I still can’t figure this out. For example, building a table and you design a leg. How do you copy it and paste is on the 4 corners of the top. I just tired using SU to design a Pottery Barnesque chaise lounge for my new deck and there has to be a quicker way to draw in all the slats between the rails. I think you can do this with the move tool, but we are back to the beginning with trying to figure out how to use that.

The other point I will add is for the neophyte to learn the keyboard shortcuts for the basic tools, this speeds up things quickly. Also using orbit, hold shift to pan. That way you don’t have to switch tools.

Can’t wait for the article!

-- Shannon

When Sketchup first came out I wrote a comment about it and called it a kids software program. It was only just out back then and due to dedicated people behind it, it is now in the number one spot for conceptualization applications. A very just reward for all that it can do. It is outstanding in getting ideas quickly on paper. It won’t replace more sophisticated CAD applications anytime soon but it sure has come way up in the standings in the last couple of years. I’ve also seen some truly remarkable sketches of buildings and funiture done with it. A very good program and pretty cheap. Free is what Google does with it unless you want the professional version which is around 500 dollars if I remember correctly. Still a good buy.

-- Rich, Nevada,

I just downloaded Sketchup today and viewed the first training video. It looks like something that I would like to learn to do. I guess if I can learn the basic commands of AutoCad I should be able to learn Sketchup, even at my age.

-- Ron in Osseo, Minnesota

i like sketchup. i don’t put much detail into it i just basically draw a rough sketch to make sure my proportions are right and it looks right. after i usually draw the final piece with more detail on graph paper.

-- if you haven't already check out my blog http://lumberjocks.com/jocks/teenagewoodworker/blog/3961

Like many others, I have been able to draw components but I can’t put them together. I can drag them around and I can look at them from many angles. I just can’t put them where I want them. I found it impossible to put a 1”x2” frame around a 25” square of 3/4” plywood. I even found it impossible to take six squares of 3/4” plywood and make a box.

Obviously people that can produce actual drawings know something about moving stuff that the rest of us don’t.

WHAT DO YOU KNOW THAT WE DON’T?

-- Leon -- Houston, TX - " I create all my own designs and it looks like it "

It seems that many of us here are in a similar boat. I had a hand drafting class in Jr. High and I think I was one of the last ones to get that course. The room is now used for in-school suspension. As Carl said, the manual drafting skills are the most valuable you could have for laying out and planning projects and for using computer programs.
I’ve worked with AutoCAD and UG NX3 in college and at work and I find it easier to draw with either of them as opposed to SketchUp. I tried SU when I first heard of it a few years ago to make a house plan and soon realized I was in way over my head. I recently reinstalled it and used it to try some different ideas for a picture frame that I need to post sometime.
I think the biggest problem that most of us have is that SU is a 3D modeling program and we like 2D better. I plan most of my projects on paper with a ruler because I like to do it that way. In a 3D modeling program you do “carve it from a block” and then generate the 2D drawings from that 3D object.
For example Leon, in a 3D cad program it’s not easy to start with 6 squares of plywood and assemble them into a box. In the case of SU, you would start with a square and “pull” it into a cube that represented the box. Or for the 1”x2” frame you would draw it flat on the plywood square and “pull” it out from the surface.
On that picture frame I did one with a 90 degree edge and one with a 45 to see what I liked best. Here is a picture:

But these are not perfect at all. I couldn’t get everything to line up and it just seems really strange the way you have to do some of the operations. (I just put up the finished product if you are interested.)
Like I said, I do most of my planning to scale on paper with a pencil but software like SU or UG NX3 can help with tricky angles or making changes and seeing what they look like immediately.

-- Kyle, Michigan

For those of you wanting to know more. Go to woodmagazine.com and go to the shop savvy software page in the forums. A lot of very useful info., videos and tutorials.

-- Phillip -- Molino,Florida "I didn't cut it too short, I'm just making changes!"

I too find Sketchup a bit of a pain to use. Already having a good grasp of Solidworks, Autocad and even Illustrator, I find Sketchups UI (User Interface) confusing. Instead of utilizing standard conventions that are comonly used in other software, SU does their own thing. I have used some of the tutorials, even a book for dummies… but in a pinch, I’ll go to the programs I know.
Perhaps the professional version works better, but I don’t want to spend the money to find out it doesn’t.

-- Anybody can become a woodworker, but only a Craftsman can hide his mistakes.

This is my second attempt at a reply to this. (My first one would have gotten me kicked off the forum!)
Sketchup is just like any other computer software program. You have to learn how to use it and use it after you learn how. It will not automatically draw things from your imagination after you install it! Computers have not advanced that far yet.
Also, if you have been using a different CAD or Drawing program for years, Sketchup is going to look and feel different. It has to because of the “Look and Feel copyright laws”. Also, just name one other drawing program that has the same price tag with this much functionality?
If you want to learn more about Sketchup just do a search on the Internet and you will be overwhelmed by how many tutorial sites there are.

-- Jim

I appreciate all the comments here. I was thinking about buying SU, but now I won’t – at least for the time being. Like my grandfather before me, when I was in school I sat down at the drawing board and learned the basics of the three view process. Frankly, I got rather good at it, advancing to oblique views and finding the true length of a line.

Now with engineering companies all converted to CAD, I was able to purchase a large motorized Hamilton drawing board and drafting machine dirt cheap. I can do very large drawings and put in all the detail that I want. Last year, when we were doing major home renovations, I drew all the walls, ceiling, lighting and electrical plans. I gave copies to all my contractors and I know I saved a lot of time and money for them and myself.

I’m not anti-technical. I didn’t go the CAD route several years back because the program was so expensive, and has a steep, time consuming learning curve. Now it appears that SU also has application limitations and learning problems. Frankly, I’m not convinced that moving from my drawing board to the computer will save me any time or offer significant advantages. I’ll keep and open mind. Perhaps this is an “era” thing. You younger guys who never sat at a drawing board will likely stay with your computers, but I believe that you have missed an important learning experience.

-- "Heaven is North of the Bridge"

hey gang, new member here (long time lurker).

to answer the question of how to accurately move things, you select a specific corner of the component that you want to move by clicking that specific corner. then move to exact spot you want it then click to drop it in place. you may need to do several move operations because of view and orientation, but accurate placement is done by selecting corners and not faces of the object.

it was extremely helpful for me to watch the videos from www.sketchupfordummies.com (also found on youtube). Specifically chapter 2 on how to move and copy like a champ would answer the placement question. Once you get that, its pretty easy to use.

hope that helps!

Ryan,

One of the things that took me a while to figure out but is very useful is the fact that you can rotate/translate the model in order to get a different view without selecting the navigation tool by simply using the wheel to zoom in/out and the middle button with Ctrl or Shift to do all kinds of rotations and translations. I find this very convenient especially since you can perform the changes of point of view while you are executing another operation, For example, I can pick a surface with push/pull tool and rotate the model to see the surface where I want to stop while I am still using the push/pull.

The use of the middle button for this operations is of course in the tutorial but most people just dive in without carefully going through it.

Alin

-- -- Alin Dobra, Gainesville, Florida