LumberJocks

Is it or isn't it

  • Advertise with us

« back to Designing Woodworking Projects forum

Forum topic by Allison posted 01-26-2011 02:32 AM 1608 views 0 times favorited 26 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View Allison's profile

Allison

819 posts in 2545 days


01-26-2011 02:32 AM

Topic tags/keywords: question resource scrollworking intarsia segmentation

segmentation?

A few days ago Bob Collins here on LJ’s posted one of his projects. You can find that thread here along with the comments.
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/43198#comment-885177
He described it as segmentation.
I said in the thread how I believed his project was not segmentation and asked other readers to please give there opinions.
We (Bob and I) never received any in put.
I REALLY am interested in knowing what my fellow Lumberjocks think.

Again it’s easiest to explain if you read the thread here.
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/43198#comment-885177

Along with my reply explaining what I THOUGHT was segmentation.

Sooo my fellow Lumberjocks, what do you say?
Segmentation or not!
Can’t wait to hear what ya all have to say!
Thanks,
Allison

-- Allison, Northeastern Ca. Remember, Amateurs built the Ark. Professionals built the Titanic!


26 replies so far

View Don's profile

Don

514 posts in 1819 days


#1 posted 01-26-2011 02:44 AM

Bobs project is exactly what I thought segmentation refered to. I haven’t ever seen a project like yours refered to that way.

-- Don - I wood work if I could. Redmond WA.

View lew's profile

lew

10154 posts in 2502 days


#2 posted 01-26-2011 02:44 AM

Well, according to the dictionary, a segment is: one of the parts into which something naturally separates or is divided; a division, portion, or section. Therefore I guess both your definitions are correct.

-- Lew- Time traveler. Purveyor of the Universe's finest custom rolling pins.

View darryl's profile

darryl

1795 posts in 3073 days


#3 posted 01-26-2011 02:48 AM

in my definition of the term, Bob’s project is most definately segmentation. Not that Wikipedia is the end-all-be-all of definitions… but here's how segmentation is described there.

View DaveTPilot's profile

DaveTPilot

271 posts in 2044 days


#4 posted 01-26-2011 03:07 AM

Hi Allison,

First, I looked at your projects and I want to say that you do some beautiful work!

On the segmentation topic, I don’t consider myself an expert on woodworking terminology but I do know a thing or two about words. Some dictionaries define segmentation as ”the act of dividing or partitioning; separation by the creation of a boundary that divides or keeps apart”.

I can see your point about separating a single piece of wood into many parts but the definition also uses the word “or” followed by “partitioning”. Partition can be defined as “a separation, as of two or more things.”

The first definition also says, ”separation by the creation of a boundary that divides or keeps apart”

Speaking in literal terms, I would say that Bob’s project is a form of segmentation. The parts of his lidded box are clearly separated by both the joints and the contrasted woods.

-- How valuable is time to a person who spends his disparaging the beliefs of others? --David Berthelette www.pilotwoodworks.com

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

15792 posts in 2965 days


#5 posted 01-26-2011 03:10 AM

Allison, the confusion here is clear, but easy to clear up. There are two very different definitions of “segmented”. Your project is an example of one definition, and Bob’s is an example of the other.

I can not argue with the fact that your ‘gator is segmented. But in woodturning, a segmented piece is basically one in which small pieces of wood are glued together in a pattern of some sort, then turned to a final form.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View Eric_S's profile

Eric_S

1521 posts in 1942 days


#6 posted 01-26-2011 03:10 AM

Allison, your project, the Grinning Gator, is considered intarsia IMO, not segmented. At least thats how I learned it, although intarsia is indeed segmented pieces so I’m sure you could call it. However,I think the term segmentation in woodworking refers to building up patterns from proportionally(or not proportionally) segmented pieces. I would consider Bob’s lid segmented.

-- - Eric Indianapolis, IN

View StumpyNubs's profile

StumpyNubs

6272 posts in 1547 days


#7 posted 01-26-2011 03:13 AM

Didn’t George Wallace call for “segmentation now, segmentation forever”? Maybe I’m getting my history confused…

-- It's the best woodworking show since the invention of wood... New episodes at: http://www.stumpynubs.com

View William's profile

William

9270 posts in 1589 days


#8 posted 01-26-2011 03:26 AM

I went and looked at the box. Then from there I went and looked at your gator. I don’t claim to be an expert by no stretch of the imagination on either technique. From what I have read and seen videos of though, if someone had just asked my opinion on what to call each technique, without giving me suggestions, this is what I would have said:
The box is segmentation.
The gator is intarsia.
Again, I don’t know too much about either. I’m only going with what I’ve seen and terms I’ve seen used for similar techniques elsewhere.

-- http://wddsrfinewoodworks.blogspot.com/

View DaveTPilot's profile

DaveTPilot

271 posts in 2044 days


#9 posted 01-26-2011 03:38 AM

Intarsia is defined as “a decorative or pictorial mosaic of inlaid wood”. From what I can tell, Allison’s work, although mosaic, is not inlaid.

-- How valuable is time to a person who spends his disparaging the beliefs of others? --David Berthelette www.pilotwoodworks.com

View jeepturner's profile

jeepturner

927 posts in 1539 days


#10 posted 01-26-2011 03:52 AM

IMO Allison’s is a segmented alligator and Bob has a segmented turning. Both pieces are made from segments and are therefore segmented. One segmented piece of art work joined and another turned are not mutually exclusive. Both are fine examples of segmented art. I have done a small bit of segmented turnings and in the circles I run in when I call something a segmented turning, we all know what it is.

Hope this helps.

I also agree with the T pilot, in that the alligator is not Intarsia. I know that I am not an expert on any of it, but this is a good place to find one.

-- Mel,

View Allison's profile

Allison

819 posts in 2545 days


#11 posted 01-26-2011 09:26 AM

I tell ya I am not sure I am glad I asked this or not. LOL!!! Mainly because I have very definitely been using the words intarsia AND segmentation to refer to my wood work on here for years and
A. No one ever mentioned that I was saying it wrong and
B. I have this lingo used on my website!
What’s up with that? LOL! I kind of feel like the “Dumb blonde (in a box)” :)

Seriously tho I decided to google it differently than my previous attempts. I searched “definition of intarsia in woodworking” I got this as a result.

“http://books.google.com/books?id=5xYBcTalTWQC&pg=PA119&lpg=PA119&dq=Definition+of+Woodworking+intarsia&source=bl&ots=ZxIU6ckfTK&sig=6zkqn3X-AIVNSHQbtfxsTSJfJzg&hl=en&ei=9MYTbWEDoaisQPOlGECQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false”: http://books.google.com/books?id=5xYBcTalTWQC&pg=PA119&lpg=PA119&dq=Definition+of+Woodworking+intarsia&source=bl&ots=ZxIU6ckfTK&sig=6zkqn3X-AIVNSHQbtfxsTSJfJzg&hl=en&ei=9MY_TbWEDoaisQPOl_GECQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

As you can see if you go to the link above, they do not even mention segmentation. (which I would have thought they would because of what I perceived the similarities to be between intarsia and segmentation)

Sooo then I searched “definition of segmentation in woodworking” and this is what I got!

http://www.google.com/search?q=Definition+of+segmentation+in+woodwrking&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

I just have to let you click this link right above. I could not believe it. Soooo I guess I am back to square one and you will see what I mean if you just click the link above.

Honestly, I thought I was going to die laughing!

-- Allison, Northeastern Ca. Remember, Amateurs built the Ark. Professionals built the Titanic!

View Sam Shakouri's profile

Sam Shakouri

1001 posts in 1834 days


#12 posted 01-26-2011 10:39 AM

This is English language, some words have more than one meaning. Segmentation, in woodturning world, means gluing few pieces together and turn all as one piece to a new shape. SO, Ellison, your gator was not segmentation because you did not turn it, inspite it was made of many segments.
Your gator is in category of intrasia and without gluing the segments together, it is a jigsaw puzzle.
Whatever in the name dose not real matter, the matter is your gator is amazing and will smile for ever.

-- Sam Shakouri / CREATING WONDERS WITH WOOD.....Sydney,Australia....

View TJ65's profile

TJ65

1357 posts in 1796 days


#13 posted 01-26-2011 12:27 PM

Well in my view Segmentation is cutting out the whole picture in one piece of timber to make it look like intarsia. But Intarsia is actually made up using several different timbers cut into small parts/pieces to form a whole picture. (thats what one eyed intarsia people say anyway)
In Bobs case it is segmented woodwork- because as it has been said, it is cut up and glued together.

-- Theresa, https://sites.google.com/site/tmj65treasure/

View rance's profile

rance

4147 posts in 1907 days


#14 posted 01-26-2011 01:39 PM

Alison, in my ‘opinion’, segmentation is with multiple pieces of wood glued to represent a ring or platter or a line, regardless of the method of obtaining the result, whether glued individually or cut/glued/cut/glued…

Intarsia (again, just my opinion) is like a jigsaw puzzle(with locking pieces or not) but with rounded faces & edges to obtain depth. :)

-- Backer boards, stop blocks, build oversized, and never buy a hand plane--

View Allison's profile

Allison

819 posts in 2545 days


#15 posted 01-26-2011 08:19 PM

I sure have learned a lot in this thread. I also really don’t know what to say (and those that know me, know it’s a rarity.) I have thought about this ever since Bob posted his project. I am not quite ready to admit defeat yet however.
And let me explain why,
In the world of intarsia (which is my preferred method of working with wood) it can take a long time to find the right color of wood for that blue heron, or red tailed hawk. Then one has to cut these pieces out of all these different kinds, colors of patterns themselves in the wood and make them fit like a glove as if that was the way it was suppose to be. In the case of what I have learned as being segmentation one takes just one piece of wood, cuts it up and of course its going to fit (as in my grinning gator) and as someone above stated like a jig saw puzzle.
Sooo in the intarsia world, segmentation (as I know it) is like an insult to intarsia. Because trust me when I say it’s two totally different things. Two totally different art forms. Sooo when I said to Bob in the original thread that I thought his work was finer than segmentation and he was insulting his own work I meant it. BECAUSE in my woodworking world when you are taking two different pieces of wood of different stock and you are making them fit like a glove THAT is a true art form in it’s own right.

-- Allison, Northeastern Ca. Remember, Amateurs built the Ark. Professionals built the Titanic!

showing 1 through 15 of 26 replies

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

GardenTenders.com :: gardening showcase