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Forum topic by d38 posted 09-14-2017 12:46 AM 414 views 1 time favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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d38

10 posts in 19 days


09-14-2017 12:46 AM

Does Jeff Weiss return phone messages or email?
I’ve got a project making window jambs and trim for 14 windows, and want more info from him on his products.
Sent an email using the “Contact” web page input. No response.
Left a message twice with the answering service twice. No call back.
Is he out traveling on trade shows? Get buried in messages/emails and can’t reply to all of them?

I’ve never used water based top coats, and never sprayed (except a farm tractor in high school), so discussing product options and techniques for first timer success would be reassuring.
And if I can’t get a hold of him to help select a product, my confidence in getting a hold of him if I have issues is dropping rapidly.

If I decide I like his products, cashing in on his sale that ends Friday would be nice.

Is this typical of him, or not typical?
Any other ways to get a hold of him?

thanks
Wayne


14 replies so far

View firefighterontheside's profile

firefighterontheside

16265 posts in 1614 days


#1 posted 09-14-2017 12:48 AM

I’ve called a few times and have had no problem. Very helpful.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View TungOil's profile

TungOil

615 posts in 252 days


#2 posted 09-14-2017 03:14 AM

Wayne- I find Jeff to be responsive, he seems to be more responsive to emails I send during business hours rather than the ones I send at night. I’ve had him call me in response to an email I sent. I also find that he responds to short emails with a single question very quickly.

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

View retfr8flyr's profile

retfr8flyr

351 posts in 1426 days


#3 posted 09-14-2017 04:25 AM

I left him a message and he got back to me the next day. Go ahead and place your order, while the sale is on, you will love his products. I just ordered some Em 6500 and HSF 5000 for an upcoming project.

-- Earl

View d38's profile

d38

10 posts in 19 days


#4 posted 09-14-2017 02:46 PM

Thanks everyone.
I sent another message today via his web’s contact page.

Since several of you like his products, I’ll ask for your opinion too.
I need a top coat for 14 oak window jambs/trim (trim will be country style so not the store bought 2” wide product). Adds up to about 275 board feet of finished wood.
- EM9300 exterior poly for the UV protection?
- Do I need sanding sealer, or can I just start with the top coat?
- I want satin finish. Can I spray 3 coats of satin without it getting cloudy? I’ve read that some products work better starting with gloss, then final coat the desired sheen. But I’d like to minimize my expenses if able with 1 product.
thanks

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

1342 posts in 1747 days


#5 posted 09-14-2017 03:41 PM



Since several of you like his products, I ll ask for your opinion
- EM9300 exterior poly for the UV protection? Should work well
- Do I need sanding sealer, or can I just start with the top coat? No, all TC finishes are self sealing. However, wb finishes have a washed out look on their own. Shellac provides the chatoyance of oil based. Do you plan to color the wood? The WR4000 dye stain works well, but should be sealed with shellac to prevent any lifting of color.
- I want satin finish. Can I spray 3 coats of satin without it getting cloudy? I ve read that some products work better starting with gloss, then final coat the desired sheen. But I d like to minimize my expenses if able with 1 product.
thanks Depends on film thickness and how picky you are. For trim I doubt anyone would notice, but here’s what I do: TC sells the flattener (kinda like flour) and will provide the mix ratios for different sheens. You will need a gram scale, like one for the kitchen, to weigh it. I buy gloss and mix to the desired sheen which cuts way down on required product inventory.

- d38

As for contacting Jeff, sometimes he is very prompt, usually within 24 hrs, but sometimes Ive had to resend after a few days. Sometimes he is busy or traveling and it takes a while.

Since you have never used wb or sprayed, you have a lot of development and learning to do. My experience is that wb requires a gun that atomizes very well. I tried several cheap guns unsuccessfully. If you have a well ventilated area I would recommend solvent precat lacquer (indoor trim). Can be thinned and sprayed well with cheap guns.

View TungOil's profile

TungOil

615 posts in 252 days


#6 posted 09-14-2017 03:50 PM

You should really talk to Jeff about your questions, but I’ll add my observations here.

There are others here more experienced with the Target products than I am, and hopefully they will weigh in. I have been making up test samples lately using the 6000, 8000 and 9300 so I have a little experience with each product. here are my observations so far. For full disclosure, I’m testing these products as alternatives to the solvent based lacquers that I have used for decades, so I’m coming at this from the viewpoint of “is this product a viable alternative to what I know already works”

- allow the final top coat to dry at least 100 hours before you pass final judgement. if you are used to solvent based finish systems, this is a BIG adjustment. you have to be patient.
- I am personally having difficulty getting the products to pull down smoothly over the mahogany I’m using, and I would assume oak would behave similarly as well. I have not tried a pore fill yet, but that is next. For the mahogany I’m testing with, I find if I block sand it pretty hard just before the top coat I get a very nice, smooth finish while still seeing some grain.
- I have done samples (over mahogany) spraying all satin as well as building with gloss under a satin topcoat. the gloss under satin combo is slightly very less foggy after it is fully dried, but only very slightly noticeable when the samples are put right next to each other. My opinion is for your application just shoot satin.
- all of the products I have tested seem to spray and lay down about the same, the 6000 seems to be slightly more forgiving than the others and does not build quite as fast. for your application the 9300 is probably the best choice but you should talk to Jeff on that.
- I’ve made samples with and without the EM1000 sanding sealer. These products self seal pretty well from my experience and there seems to be no cost advantage to using the 1000 as a base coat. I’ll probably forgo using the sealer for my application (a dining table)
- no matter what, you will see what appears to be blushing right after you spray it. It will clear up after a bit of cure time.

Bottom line, I think you should call Jeff and talk to him directly. He is the best source to answer your questions above.

this photo might help illustrate what I’m talking about above. the top half of the triangle (above the square plug) was sanded 400G just before the final top coat was applied, the bottom half was not. you can see the difference in how the 6000 has pulled down a bit more flat on the sanded part of the sample.

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

View d38's profile

d38

10 posts in 19 days


#7 posted 09-14-2017 04:35 PM

No response yet, but only been a few hours. Hope to hear from him by afternoon Friday.
Lots of great info here everyone.
Yep, I have a lot to learn. Will need to practice on several scrap boards before the real ones.
I’ll use Mohawk Ultra Penetrating Stain. Water cleanup, non-grain raising. Went to Council Bluffs IA to discuss with the supplier and selected a couple bottles.
Spray gun – pretty sure Fuji. Jeff at Homestead Finishing said the Semi-Pro 2-stage will work, but the Mini-Mite 3 stage will be better. And I believe the Mini-Mite 3 T70 gun is all stainless in the fluid path. I’ll most likely buy the sprayer from Jeff, and a quart of General Finish Exterior 450 to experiment with also. He replied to my email same day that GF 450 would be his product choice.

View AandCstyle's profile

AandCstyle

2819 posts in 2014 days


#8 posted 09-15-2017 11:38 PM

Wayne, I was a total novice when I started spraying with EM6000 and it is very easy to learn. I think all the Target products I have used are pretty forgiving, but the 6000 is my favorite. The EM1000 might give a bit more “depth” to the finish, but it is not essential, IMO. If you join Jeff’s Finishing Zone, you will get emails about 25% off sales every month so you don’t have to hurry for that reason. He is a great guy, but is a bit of a one man band, I think he has less than a dozen employees. Regarding learning to spray, you might consider Jeff Jewitt’s book Spray Finishing Made Simple. Since there is no cost difference, I would use the EM9300 for your application. HTH

-- Art

View Drew's profile

Drew

327 posts in 2857 days


#9 posted 09-16-2017 01:44 AM

I’ve sprayed 100+ gallons of EmTech and have been pretty happy with it, although I have moved on to Milesi.

Things to know before spraying 9300.

1st- it’s always a good idea to seal oak before you spray it with a waterborne top coat.
EM1000 is a nice sealer. I love adding a 1/4oz of general finish medium brown dye stain to about 30 oz of 1k to bring the wood to life.

2nd- you definitely want to seal oak (and walnut!!) before spraying with 9300. One of the nice things about 9300 is that you can cut it 50% and use it as your seal coat, although I do not recommend doing that over any water based color that hasn’t dried for at least 24 hours. And even then it can be trouble with some products.

3rd- 9300 is probably the least forgiving of all Jeff’s products.

Now with all that said, I think you’d be better off spray General Finishes Exterior 450. It is the only GF top coat I would recommend.

-- TruCraftFurniture.com

View d38's profile

d38

10 posts in 19 days


#10 posted 09-17-2017 04:52 AM

Got the new Target Coatings promo code, so thought I’d price a quart each of EM1000 sealer and EM9300, and 8 oz Retarder.
Holy cow, it showed $58 shipping???? Is it really that high, or is actual shipping much more reasonable? So I didn’t continue the transaction.
I thought a quart to practice with to decide if I can figure out how to use it would be a nice idea.
But if $42 (with the promo code) of product requires $58 shipping, I’ll start with GF 450 and if the 450 works well for me, I’ll go with it. But I was hoping to experiment with both, then decide.

View retfr8flyr's profile

retfr8flyr

351 posts in 1426 days


#11 posted 09-17-2017 05:16 AM

His shipping is a little high but that sounds off. I paid $43 shipping for 2 gallon cans.

-- Earl

View tdwilli1's profile

tdwilli1

17 posts in 1343 days


#12 posted 09-17-2017 02:47 PM


Got the new Target Coatings promo code, so thought I d price a quart each of EM1000 sealer and EM9300, and 8 oz Retarder.
Holy cow, it showed $58 shipping???? Is it really that high, or is actual shipping much more reasonable? So I didn t continue the transaction.
I thought a quart to practice with to decide if I can figure out how to use it would be a nice idea.
But if $42 (with the promo code) of product requires $58 shipping, I ll start with GF 450 and if the 450 works well for me, I ll go with it. But I was hoping to experiment with both, then decide.

- d38

I was in the same boat when I first wanted to try it. I also didn’t finish the purchase after seeing the shipping charge. After a while I decided to see if there was a local distributor/retailer. I was able to find out that one of the Miller Paint stores here in Portland has them. So I was able to run downtown and pick some up without that cost prohibitive charge. I’ve picked up lots of 6000 from them. So if there are any Miller Paint stores in your area you might want to call all of them to see if they carry it.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

3249 posts in 2066 days


#13 posted 09-17-2017 06:14 PM

It would cost me 140.81 total (price and shipping) for a gallon.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View AandCstyle's profile

AandCstyle

2819 posts in 2014 days


#14 posted 09-17-2017 09:40 PM

The shipping cost for gallons is “reasonable”, but the cost to ship quarts is almost the same as the cost of the quart of product. I wish Jeff would make his line available through Amazon.

-- Art

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