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Forum topic by SweetTea posted 09-10-2017 12:34 PM 531 views 0 times favorited 20 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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SweetTea

203 posts in 437 days


09-10-2017 12:34 PM

Ok so I want to modify my 2HP single stage Harbor Freight dust collector and make it into a 2 stage unit by adding a cyclone over a big 55 gallon drum and upgrade the stock filter bag. Right now I am debating on which cyclone to get. But first, a little info on my setup.

My dust collector will have a 4” PVC trunk that is approx 40ft long and will have 8 to 10 drops at various tools. Most of the drops will be 4” hose. The drops will come off of 4” Y’s from the main trunk. I have a large shop with lots of machines and a relatively small budget. I should note that I will only be using one machine at a time.

I was wondering if you guys could tell me if the big 38” tall Oneida Super Dust Deputy XL is worth the extra money over the 19” tall generic cyclones that come from China? Or perhaps one of the smaller Oneida Dust Deputy’s? The XL version is $239 not including shipping, where as the generic 19” tall cyclones on EBay are only around $30-$40.

Between the cost of five 4” PVC pipes $13 each, with 8 to 10 Y's at approx $12-$13 each, 8 to 10 PVC to 4" hose adapters $8 each from Rockler, 8 to 10 blast gates approx $10 each, and 8 to 10 four inch x 10ft flex hose $20 each this is going to add up quickly.


20 replies so far

View WhyMe's profile

WhyMe

879 posts in 1339 days


#1 posted 09-10-2017 02:15 PM

I think the XL is a waste of money on the HF DC. The HF DC doesn’t have the power for it. I use the Super DD on my HF DC is it does okay from my perspective.

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SweetTea

203 posts in 437 days


#2 posted 09-10-2017 02:30 PM



I think the XL is a waste of money on the HF DC. The HF DC doesn t have the power for it. I use the Super DD on my HF DC is it does okay from my perspective.

- WhyMe

So you have the unit that goes for $169? What made you go with it versus the cheaper models?

View RobS888's profile

RobS888

2283 posts in 1623 days


#3 posted 09-10-2017 02:31 PM

I just use the rockler bin connectors (2 screw on 90s) on a 55 gall Drum. It isn’t perfect, but as long as the drum doesn’t fill up, it is pretty good.

I’m able to get the hose onto the pipes without adaptors and sometimes the blast gate will fit onto the pipe as well.

When the pressure drops we empty the drum by filling paper lunch bags with the dust and then burn them n the winter. We keep the lunch bags in the large paper leaf bag, so they can breathe.

I have one really long run of about 50 feet and another run of 20. We have 2 blast gates connecting the drum to the pipes.

-- I always suspected many gun nuts were afraid of something, just never thought popcorn was on the list.

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SweetTea

203 posts in 437 days


#4 posted 09-10-2017 02:33 PM

I wonder if I would be leaving performance on the table by going with the Chinese knockoff that you can purchase on EBay? The biggest one of the Chinese knockoffs that I could find on eBay was approx 19” tall (500mm) versus 38” with the Oneida Super Dust Deputy XL.

View ArtMann's profile

ArtMann

621 posts in 594 days


#5 posted 09-10-2017 02:57 PM

I suggest you reevaluate your design to see if you can reduce the length of duct work. 40 feet of 4 inch pipe plus the drops themselves will reduce the air flow to the point you may get settling of dust in the trunk line. The (allegedly) 2 horsepower HF dust collector is pretty weak as the heart of a central system and the cyclone will reduce the air flow even further.

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SweetTea

203 posts in 437 days


#6 posted 09-10-2017 05:57 PM



I suggest you reevaluate your design to see if you can reduce the length of duct work. 40 feet of 4 inch pipe plus the drops themselves will reduce the air flow to the point you may get settling of dust in the trunk line. The (allegedly) 2 horsepower HF dust collector is pretty weak as the heart of a central system and the cyclone will reduce the air flow even further.

- ArtMann

This is the only way to make this work as my machines are layer out in a straight line. I may just end up having to buy another one of the HF 2HP units and have each one do 20ft of trunk.

View William Shelley's profile

William Shelley

436 posts in 1247 days


#7 posted 09-10-2017 09:14 PM


I suggest you reevaluate your design to see if you can reduce the length of duct work. 40 feet of 4 inch pipe plus the drops themselves will reduce the air flow to the point you may get settling of dust in the trunk line. The (allegedly) 2 horsepower HF dust collector is pretty weak as the heart of a central system and the cyclone will reduce the air flow even further.

- ArtMann

This is the only way to make this work as my machines are layer out in a straight line. I may just end up having to buy another one of the HF 2HP units and have each one do 20ft of trunk.

- SweetTea

You’re fighting an uphill battle here. You need a minimum feet/minute of air travel to keep dust suspended (i think it’s 2500ft/min at the bottom end), but you are also losing CFM due to the smaller diameter. Going to 6” for the trunk may help with the CFM loss but might reduce the air speed to below acceptable amounts. There’s a reason that DCs have to be bigger to handle more tools and more line… otherwise you’d see big factories with a 2HP dc in the back.

-- Woodworking from an engineer's perspective

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ArtMann

621 posts in 594 days


#8 posted 09-11-2017 12:52 AM

I don’t know about Harbor Freight brand, but I think the idea of multiple dust collectors to shorten the duct runs and improve air flow has some merit.

View retfr8flyr's profile

retfr8flyr

358 posts in 1447 days


#9 posted 09-11-2017 12:59 AM

You can upgrade the impeller on the HF to a 12 inch and that will help the airflow a lot. As William stated you are killing the airflow with the long run of 4 inch ducting. Can you just roll the DC to each machine, when in use, with shorter ducting? I have the Jet 1100VX-CK and I have very limited space in my shop, so I just move it to each machine as I need it. I am going to add the SDD to mine and make it a 2 stage system. I recently added a drum sander and it produces such fine powdery dust, lots of it, that I need help with the DC setup.

-- Earl

View WhyMe's profile

WhyMe

879 posts in 1339 days


#10 posted 09-11-2017 02:58 AM


I think the XL is a waste of money on the HF DC. The HF DC doesn t have the power for it. I use the Super DD on my HF DC is it does okay from my perspective.

- WhyMe

So you have the unit that goes for $169? What made you go with it versus the cheaper models?

- SweetTea

I was able to see and touch the SDD and knew exactly what I was getting before buying. I didn’t want to take a chance on an unknown cyclone.

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

1090 posts in 1002 days


#11 posted 09-11-2017 03:27 AM

Just a side note. I have done this with the HF unit and the SDD and running it through 4” ducting at 15 feet I got about 375 cfm. At 30 feet, I lost 25% cfm

This was stock impeller with a wynn filter but I had the bag off the bottom so I had complete airflow, as if I was pumping directly outside.

After that, I figured it was going to be wasting more money trying to keep trying to mod this whole thing to make it work.
If you want to keep using the HF unit and the cyclone, it really need to be on a short run and wheeled around to the tools. But, that really depends what you’re wanting from the unit. If you just want to keep the big chips from going on the floor, it will work for that.

On a side note, I had a second set of piping along the south wall that I had a second HF unit attached to a moulded trash can separator and the CFMs were near identical. The only difference I would assume would be the amount of separation.

View William Shelley's profile

William Shelley

436 posts in 1247 days


#12 posted 09-11-2017 03:28 AM

The other thing that could be done, and I’m not sure why nobody has suggested this, is to put the DC in the center of the 40ft run and use a gate right at the DC to control which side it pulls from. That way you’ve only got a 20ft run from the farthest tool to the DC.

-- Woodworking from an engineer's perspective

View SweetTea's profile

SweetTea

203 posts in 437 days


#13 posted 09-11-2017 10:12 AM



You can upgrade the impeller on the HF to a 12 inch and that will help the airflow a lot. As William stated you are killing the airflow with the long run of 4 inch ducting. Can you just roll the DC to each machine, when in use, with shorter ducting? I have the Jet 1100VX-CK and I have very limited space in my shop, so I just move it to each machine as I need it. I am going to add the SDD to mine and make it a 2 stage system. I recently added a drum sander and it produces such fine powdery dust, lots of it, that I need help with the DC setup.

- retfr8flyr

Where can I find information about the 12” impeller mod? I would like to look into that.

View SweetTea's profile

SweetTea

203 posts in 437 days


#14 posted 09-11-2017 10:13 AM

Are there any other bag type filters that are considered an upgrade from the stock bag, yet do not cost an arm and a leg?

View Bob5103's profile

Bob5103

69 posts in 611 days


#15 posted 09-11-2017 11:11 AM


You can upgrade the impeller on the HF to a 12 inch and that will help the airflow a lot. As William stated you are killing the airflow with the long run of 4 inch ducting. Can you just roll the DC to each machine, when in use, with shorter ducting? I have the Jet 1100VX-CK and I have very limited space in my shop, so I just move it to each machine as I need it. I am going to add the SDD to mine and make it a 2 stage system. I recently added a drum sander and it produces such fine powdery dust, lots of it, that I need help with the DC setup.

- retfr8flyr

Where can I find information about the 12” impeller mod? I would like to look into that.

- SweetTea


I converted my HF DC to a larger impeller, and I use the SDD and exhaust outside. I used 5” metal duct and my longest run is 41’. I did a review about the conversion here: https://www.woodtalkonline.com/topic/23656-harbor-freight-rikonstein-dc/

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