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Forum topic by Floyd Hall posted 08-29-2017 07:48 PM 661 views 0 times favorited 20 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Floyd Hall

8 posts in 52 days


08-29-2017 07:48 PM

Topic tags/keywords: bandsaw re-saw dimensioning lumber question

Hi all,

For the past 6-7 months I’ve been looking a bandsaws—a wide variety of bandsaws for 14i up to 20i, 1-phase to 3-phase, new to vintage. I’m about half crazy by now.

I’m looking for a saw that I can use to augment my somewhat under-powered contractor’s saw and to do re-saw work. I bought a load of slabs a while back and I’d like to re-saw them and match the grains for various projects.

Anyway, I’ve come close to buying 4-5 saws, mostly 14i saws, mostly because I was worried they wouldn’t have enough power and/or because they didn’t seem to have enough re-saw capacity. I’ve been looking at a 3 hp Laguna 14i SUV, which I figure can comfortably run 3/4i blades on down.

Is this going to be enough saw? It claims to re-saw 14i. Or do I have to wait to buy something bigger, knowing that those saws run in the $3,500 range and are a long way off.

Floyd


20 replies so far

View bbasiaga's profile

bbasiaga

980 posts in 1776 days


#1 posted 08-29-2017 07:51 PM

Really, you need to decide how big of a piece you need to resaw. If a 14” can do that, go for it. The HP is more going to limit cut speed than anything else. If you plan to do a lot and time is a factor, a more powerful saw will have benefits. If you are good with 12 to 14” of resaw, the larger 17”and 20” saws don’t offer much advantage over a 14” with the same size motor.

Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

1123 posts in 1579 days


#2 posted 08-29-2017 08:51 PM

Floyd if you want a saw for resawing then I suggest you look at a machine with a 20 inch wheel.
There will be a greater variety of blades you can choose from plus longer blades last longer and cut better.
A 14 inch wheel is good for small stuff and curves. I wouldn’t count on a 14 inch wheel for anything more then 7 inches tall.
Don’t be fooled by the current trend of small wheels and tall resawing.

-- Aj

View Sawdust35's profile

Sawdust35

23 posts in 643 days


#3 posted 08-29-2017 09:11 PM

I have the Laguna 14bx 110V. I’ve used the resaw king blade to resaw material 11” tall. The full height capacity is about 12.5-13”. I like it a lot. I also bought the long arm light and mobile base from laguna. Very happy with these accessories. I think the blade guides are easy to adjust when switching blades. If I had the money and space I would get another one for curves.
Best of luck in making your decision.

View Floyd Hall's profile

Floyd Hall

8 posts in 52 days


#4 posted 08-29-2017 11:15 PM

Hi,

Thank you. This is what I was looking for. Really, a bandsaw is bewildering tool to purchase given all the choices you have to make.

My re-sawing will be fairly limited—maybe once or twice a week—but I really need the saw I buy to re-saw well even at 8-12i. I have a good supply of slabs and figure to make this the centerpiece of my woodworking. Right now I figure I’ll mount these slabs to an upright sled and go slow, but I need as much re-saw capacity as I can get. Most the live-edge slabs I have now are 12-14i. Trimming them a bit is no problem. But I am essentially orienting my whole shop to this. In the next week I’m putting together two heavy duty work tables. The pieces are already cut and milled. One will be a 4×5ft table and the other a 2×5ft table. Both will be exactly the same height sot I can use separately or in tandem for working on slabs. This bandsaw looks to be the key to the entire shop.

My other ‘big’ question is how much a bandsaw will actually help me dimension pieces so I can get more out of my Powermatic 64A contractor’s saw. I’ve been struggling with this for months now and it’s part of the reason for my confusion. I bought two new thin-kerf blades, then a Forrest stiffener, then checked the alignment carefully and now am bringing in a electrician to upgrade the wiring from the box to the saw—all so I can get better cuts out of the TS. After planing (another issue), what are the ways I can use a bandsaw to complement a relatively underpowered table saw? Are there any?

Thanks again,

Floyd

P.S. I’ve been around to talk to various local sawmills, etc. There are several places I can get bigger pieces—14-20i wide—planed and re-sawn. This means I am mostly focused on pieces 2-3i thick, 8-12i wide and maybe 4-6ft long in my own shop. These are what I would need a good bandsaw for. I have plenty of hand-held power tools to do the rest.

View TungOil's profile

TungOil

665 posts in 276 days


#5 posted 08-30-2017 01:15 AM

I’m not sure if it’s within your desired budget, but the new Powermatic 15” model can resaw 14”. other than that perhaps a used 20” machine would do the trick. I see them pretty frequently on CL around here in the Philly area.

can you explain in more detail what you are trying to do with your PM64 that is not working for you? Are you trying to resaw slabs and if so, how?

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

View Floyd Hall's profile

Floyd Hall

8 posts in 52 days


#6 posted 08-30-2017 02:18 AM

Based on what I’m seeing here, I’m looking to step up from the Laguna 14 SUV to the Laguna 18 BX saw, both of which have 1PH/3HP/220V motors (the 14i saw requires 30 amps, the 18 only 20 amps) and have 14-16i re-saw capacities. People before have recommended the PM 1500 (before I had a better grasp of this), but it runs $3,000 and is a little out of reach for now. The Laguna 18 BX runs $2,000, which I can probably afford. And, yes, I’ve looked at older 20i bandsaws, but the re-saw capacity tends to run around 10i and they tend to be 3PH machines. I might move to 3PH tools eventually because they are so big and the prices on them are so attractive, but that’s a good ways down the road.

As for the PM 64A contractor’s saw, I’ve been testing it to see what it will comfortably cut. The work tables I mention above will have 1 1/4i MDF tops and the framing is 7/8i to 1 1/8i hickory. I’m getting severe burn marks both on the hickory and also on some 1i maple I recently cut. My blades are brand new thin-kerf Freud ‘industrial’ blades, which were recommended and I had hoped would fix the problem. They haven’t. Anyway, this doesn’t have to be a production machine, but I do need to cut 5/4 and 6/4 hardwoods on occasion—straight and without burn marks. So this is a problem. But, like I said, this week I purchased a Forrest blade stiffener and I have an electrician coming in to upgrade the circuit to 20 amps and put in 10-gauge wiring. If this works, I’ll use this one circuit for both the TS and BS. If I have to, I’ll rewire the motor on the PM 64A to 230v. After that, I give up.

Thanks for your help, by the way. I appreciate it.

Floyd

View TungOil's profile

TungOil

665 posts in 276 days


#7 posted 08-30-2017 02:34 AM

have you verified the alignment of the fence to the blade on the PM64? burning, particularly if it is always on one side of the cut, is often due to a misaligned fence. the fence and blade must be parallel, although some folks prefer to have the exit side of the fence a few thousandths open.

Burning on both sides can be caused by uneven feeding or by not starting with one straight edge up against the fence of the TS. Are you truing up one edge on a jointer or with a hand plane and are you sure it is straight?

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

5803 posts in 1980 days


#8 posted 08-30-2017 02:37 AM

And, yes, I’ve looked at older 20i bandsaws, but the re-saw capacity tends to run around 10i and they tend to be 3PH machines.

Three phase would give you variable speed capabilities, which is pretty handy to have on a band saw – so I wouldn’t rule it out completely. They are also more robust and efficient. A VFD would only be a couple hundred extra.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View Slider20's profile

Slider20

117 posts in 302 days


#9 posted 08-30-2017 03:03 AM

I can relate to your confusion, eventually I just got fed up, I recently got the Laguna 1412, not in the same league as the machines you are discussing but with a 3/4” Carbide Resaw king I get very nice cuts in 10” thick material. That’s the furthest I’ve pushed it, it’s a little slow, but I’m just a hobbyist, so I can take my time.

As to your table saw issues, I don’t think it’s a power issue, I have a Small Sawstop Jobsite Saw, that after tuning it up, I get very clean burn free cuts in 8/4 Maple. This is with a full Kerf Forest WWII, and my Saw is certainly less powerful than yours.

View Floyd Hall's profile

Floyd Hall

8 posts in 52 days


#10 posted 08-30-2017 03:48 AM

I’m truing as best I can on my 6i jointer, but the bed is pretty short—42i—and a couple of the pieces are fairly long—5-6ft. Meanwhile, I borrowed an magnetic dial gauge and spent 3-4 hours checking and rechecking the alignment and then several more hours doing it without the dial gauge according to various YouTube videos. Really, I probably spend 6-7 hours just watching videos and measuring—then measuring again, because I wanted to find something wrong that would explain the burn marks. Anyway, it appears to be as close as it can be to perfect alignment. The burn marks do often come on the back edge of the blade when I switch hands as I’m feeding. So I was going to get some MicroJig splitters, too. They don’t cost much. Anyway, I’m just frustrated. I spent $100 on two 3/32i Freud blades (one combo and one rip) and I was hoping that would fix the problem. Like I said, it didn’t. So I went out again looking at bandsaws again, hoping I could compensate with one of those. Hence my questions.

Right now my electrician thinks the table saw problem is a power/wiring issue. The saw is on a 15 amp circuit with thin-gauge wiring. Hopefully, I’ll have that sorted out by the weekend. I figure I need the bigger circuit/wiring anyway for when I get a bandsaw, and maybe I’ll rewire everything for 220-230v. Anyway, I’ll almost certainly be looking at 3PH, but that will be down the road when I move into a bigger space (which I already have but it’s going to require some work). Then I’ll be looking for big boy tools—a 5 hp table saw, a 8-12i jointer, a 20i (or more) planer, etc.

Floyd

View ArtMann's profile

ArtMann

628 posts in 597 days


#11 posted 08-30-2017 06:09 PM

I tried to resaw cherry with a rip blade on a table saw once and found it nearly impossible to get a good smooth cut and not burn the wood. That is just the nature of cherry. Right now, I use a 1.75 horsepower Laguna 14/twelve bandsaw and it works very well, even on 12 inch maple. I use a 3 tpi, 1/2 inch wide blade. The reason it works so well for me is that I resaw a small volume of boards for box making, inlay and CNC carving. Throughput is not critical because the volume is not high. I used to use a 1 horsepower “professional” Craftsman steel frame saw and it did fine too for 8 inch and less wide stock. A small and low power saw will produce the same quality as a big saw but you have to take it easy.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7607 posts in 2695 days


#12 posted 08-30-2017 08:06 PM

I have the Rikon – 10-325 14-in. Bandsaw and used this for the past 6-7yr. I bought it for resawing and have resawn hardwood as wide as 10-11 inchs, even though it can cut as much as 13in. Why? Because I have an 8inch jointer for the most part (convenience, not capacity).

I use a 111-inch Timber Wolf 2-3 TPI 3/4in.x 0.025 TPC (formerly AS-S) & VPC Series Timber Wolf® band saw blade

I have found THIS blade to be the best for my resawing efforts. FWIW, I used to use the 3/4-inch 3-TPI, however, after using this variable pitch blade (that cleans out the cut much better), I will never go back. I love it so much that I bought a 10-inch Rikon Bandsaw for doing my other stuff like curves and small pieces.

The Rikon 10-325 (now #10-326) is my go-to resaw machine. Like you, I am not in any high production environment and my limited resawing needs are met here, and at 100%. So I tend to leave this 3-2TPI blade on all of the time.

Do note that OTHERS have their own favorites/attitudes about what is best, most useful, etc. All I know is that I paid $675.00 at my local WoodCraft back in 2010 and never looked back. You do not have to break the bank to get a good, NEW, 14 inch bandsaw. Just my 2-cents worth…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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HorizontalMike

7607 posts in 2695 days


#13 posted 08-30-2017 08:23 PM



Based on what I m seeing here, I m looking to step up from the Laguna 14 SUV to the Laguna 18 BX saw, both of which have 1PH/3HP/220V motors (the 14i saw requires 30 amps, the 18 only 20 amps) and have 14-16i re-saw capacities. People before have recommended the PM 1500 (before I had a better grasp of this), but it runs $3,000 and is a little out of reach for now. The Laguna 18 BX runs $2,000, which I can probably afford. And, yes, I ve looked at older 20i bandsaws, but the re-saw capacity tends to run around 10i and they tend to be 3PH machines. I might move to 3PH tools eventually because they are so big and the prices on them are so attractive, but that s a good ways down the road.

As for the PM 64A contractor s saw, I ve been testing it to see what it will comfortably cut. The work tables I mention above will have 1 1/4i MDF tops and the framing is 7/8i to 1 1/8i hickory. I m getting severe burn marks both on the hickory and also on some 1i maple I recently cut. My blades are brand new thin-kerf Freud industrial blades, which were recommended and I had hoped would fix the problem. They haven t. Anyway, this doesn t have to be a production machine, but I do need to cut 5/4 and 6/4 hardwoods on occasion—straight and without burn marks. So this is a problem. But, like I said, this week I purchased a Forrest blade stiffener and I have an electrician coming in to upgrade the circuit to 20 amps and put in 10-gauge wiring. If this works, I ll use this one circuit for both the TS and BS. If I have to, I ll rewire the motor on the PM 64A to 230v. After that, I give up.
Thanks for your help, by the way. I appreciate it.
Floyd
- Floyd Hall

I just re-read this and it stands out to me that your issue just may be, an issue of your cutting/resawing technique. Are you rushing the cut? Are you trying to peal off the cutoffs on the fence side? Are you failing to provide a long and stable in-feed and out-feed platform, that can promote the squeezing and burning you mention?

Only you can answer the above. And please, answer the above only to yourself. This is for your own protection from the trolling entities that lurk here. Hate to be so blunt, but carry a big salt shaker for your own sanity. In other words, weigh and check all recommendations of actions BEFORE you do anything.

And by the way… WELCOME TO LUMBERJOCKS!

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View TungOil's profile

TungOil

665 posts in 276 days


#14 posted 08-30-2017 11:03 PM



I m truing as best I can on my 6i jointer, but the bed is pretty short—42i—and a couple of the pieces are fairly long—5-6ft. Meanwhile, I borrowed an magnetic dial gauge and spent 3-4 hours checking and rechecking the alignment and then several more hours doing it without the dial gauge according to various YouTube videos. Really, I probably spend 6-7 hours just watching videos and measuring—then measuring again, because I wanted to find something wrong that would explain the burn marks. Anyway, it appears to be as close as it can be to perfect alignment. The burn marks do often come on the back edge of the blade when I switch hands as I m feeding. So I was going to get some MicroJig splitters, too. They don t cost much. Anyway, I m just frustrated. I spent $100 on two 3/32i Freud blades (one combo and one rip) and I was hoping that would fix the problem. Like I said, it didn t. So I went out again looking at bandsaws again, hoping I could compensate with one of those. Hence my questions.

Right now my electrician thinks the table saw problem is a power/wiring issue. The saw is on a 15 amp circuit with thin-gauge wiring. Hopefully, I ll have that sorted out by the weekend. I figure I need the bigger circuit/wiring anyway for when I get a bandsaw, and maybe I ll rewire everything for 220-230v. Anyway, I ll almost certainly be looking at 3PH, but that will be down the road when I move into a bigger space (which I already have but it s going to require some work). Then I ll be looking for big boy tools—a 5 hp table saw, a 8-12i jointer, a 20i (or more) planer, etc.

Floyd

- Floyd Hall

a 6” jointer with a 42” bed is plenty big enough to true up a 72” board, so that is likely not your issue. I’d look to your stock feeding technique as the probable culprit.

Also might be a blade issue- you will need a ripping blade for this operation (less teeth, not more) and make sure it’s clean. even slight pitch buildup can cause burning especially on such a deep cut.

Bottom line is the tablesaw is arguably the most used tool in most woodworkers shops (hand tool purists excepted!). You should take the time to learn to use it properly and be sure it is tuned well. Perhaps you can find a local experienced woodworker to look over your machine and critique your technique for you?

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

View Lee's profile

Lee

88 posts in 659 days


#15 posted 08-30-2017 11:57 PM

I have been using the grizzle GO513X2 17” saw for quite a while and am very pleased with it. It has a 2HP 230v motor and 12” resaw, with cast iron trunions and wheels, right now it goes for $1150. Take a look at this link.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/17-Bandsaw-2HP-w-Cast-Iron-Trunnion/G0513X2?utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com

-- Colombia Custom woodworking

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