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Need Help- Target Coatings with Cross-Linker

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Forum topic by TungOil posted 08-25-2017 02:52 AM 446 views 0 times favorited 11 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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TungOil

671 posts in 279 days


08-25-2017 02:52 AM

Today I made up some samples using Target Coatings EM6000, EM8000 and EM9300. I have sprayed lots of NC lacquer over the years, but this was my first attempt at shooting with water based products. I ran into an issue that I’m hoping one of the more experienced users of Target products can help me with.

My EM8000 and EM9300 samples came out full of tiny clear inclusions that are not dust or other typical shop contaminants. This photo shows the 9300 right after I shot the third coat.

Both coatings I mixed with 5% CL100 cross-linker, I stirred them thoroughly by hand, and let them sit for 1 hour before applying the first topcoat. I’m thinking these inclusions are due to insufficient mixing of the CL100 into the base topcoat but looking for thoughts from those more experienced with the Target products.

Here is a close up of one of the inclusions. This was shot through a 12x lupe and the rule in the image is graduated in 1/64’s.

The EM6000 sample I shot came out beautiful. It layed down flat with negligible inclusions. I did not add and CL100 to the EM6000.

I’m thinking my issue is with the cross-linker. Tomorrow I plan to aggressively sand out the inclusions and re-shoot with just the 8000 and 9300, no cross-linker, to see if this helps.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Is it the cross-linker or something else?

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"


11 replies so far

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TungOil

671 posts in 279 days


#1 posted 08-25-2017 05:39 PM

Jeff Weiss from Target got back to me earlier today. The issue was with the mixing of the cross-linker into the finish. It must be added very slowly while mixing the base so it disperses completely. I must have added it too quickly.

After I sanded out the two sample boards to remove the nibs, I reapplied one coat and the finish came up beautiful.

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

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Fred Hargis

4649 posts in 2277 days


#2 posted 08-25-2017 08:16 PM

Good to know, thanks for that. I would have never guessed that the speed at which you added the crosslinker would have caused that problem. But then, I had no idea what it might have been….so I kept my keyboard quiet. Glad you solved it.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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AandCstyle

2858 posts in 2041 days


#3 posted 08-25-2017 09:04 PM

Tung, the CL100 is pretty nasty stuff which Jeff may have mentioned. I usually add it a bit at a time, maybe a couple mls and stir rapidly for a minute or so, then add another couple mls. The hour waiting period is a minimum and longer won’t hurt anything, even the night before isn’t a bad idea. Once you get used to them the Target products are really nice and quite forgiving. FWIW

-- Art

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TungOil

671 posts in 279 days


#4 posted 08-25-2017 09:22 PM

Art- I think for my use (non-commercial) the CL100 is overkill anyway. I’m spraying some samples today with a 1 lb cut shellac as a base to try to get the grain to pop a little more, topped with the 8000 and 9300 to see how they look. Without the CL100 they spray like a dream. Trying to get the look of an oil/varnish topcoat (like Arm-R-Seal) from a water based finish is proving tricky.

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

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AandCstyle

2858 posts in 2041 days


#5 posted 08-25-2017 09:37 PM

Tung, you can use WR4000 (a linseed emulsion) that pops the grain and even add a bit of dye to it if you like. I like the CL100 for table tops for my personal home use, but don’t use it otherwise.

-- Art

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TungOil

671 posts in 279 days


#6 posted 08-26-2017 12:06 AM

thanks Art. I’ll give that a try next if the shellac doesn’t do the trick.

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

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OSU55

1364 posts in 1773 days


#7 posted 08-28-2017 12:13 PM

I really like Target’s products, and owner Jeff Weiss’ availability for product support is invaluable. Try some honey amber Transtint mixed in the topcoat of choice to get the amber of oil based finishes. It will not help the lack of chatoyance that exists with all wb finishes. The WR4000 helps (I also like it because it provides more open time vs water or dna), but adding a coat of shellac is the best. If coloring the wood, the shellac seals the color and prevents lifting by the topcoat. The shellac can be tinted with transtint for a toner as well.

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TungOil

671 posts in 279 days


#8 posted 08-28-2017 12:39 PM

OSU- you hit exactly on my issue- trying to replicate the chatoyance of the of the oil based finishes. Even the samples I prepared with the cut shellac didn’t come close to the Arm-R-Seal sample. I have a few more samples in the works that I plan to try with the Zinser Sealcoat un-cut.

What about applying a few light wiped coats of Arm-R-Seal them topcoating with the WB?

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

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Rich

1725 posts in 373 days


#9 posted 08-28-2017 01:39 PM

Tung, pardon me if you’ve addressed this, but why not Waterlox? I know you’re a fan of the product, and it’s plenty durable for a tabletop.

-- No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

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ClammyBallz

423 posts in 920 days


#10 posted 08-28-2017 09:00 PM

I pour the crosslinker in slowly while using a paint mixer and a drill, then mix for another minute or two. You can get these at lowes for $5.

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TungOil

671 posts in 279 days


#11 posted 08-29-2017 02:17 AM

Waterlox would probably be durable enough. It’s just too hard to to wipe a table top this big and get an even finish. And I’d prefer something water based for safety reasons.

The mixer is a good idea. I only mixed up 50 ml in a beaker to spray a test sample so I hand mixed with a scrap of wood. I would use a mixer if I were mixing up a quart or two

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

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