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Forum topic by darnes posted 08-24-2017 12:30 PM 500 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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darnes

28 posts in 60 days


08-24-2017 12:30 PM

New to woodworking and have had a potential setback.

I do all my work outside.
I am in North Texas
Project in question is a table top with 1×8 Red Oak glued up in 8’x40” to be trimmed down to 7ft with breadboard ends

Glue up went ok except it was 106 outside and the glue was dry practically as soon as it came out of the bottle. Setup fine and flat for the first 24 hours. Took it out but I think the heat caused it to cup once it was out in the sun for a bit. Then even though it was not in the forecast it rained cats and * dogs and blew the tarp off so the wood got a good wetting. I clamped it back down flat and leaving it to dry again.

Any thing I have to worry about here? Not sure how much wet on unfinished wood you can get without causing a problem. I have kind of resigned myself to the idea that I may have to put an apron on it to maintain it being straight since the material has already cupped some and is not super thick to begin with.

Also I have no idea what I am doing so take that in to consideration as well :)


14 replies so far

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Carloz

769 posts in 375 days


#1 posted 08-24-2017 12:54 PM

I guess oak would withstand ok a few years or rain. Nothing to worry about.

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buckbuster31

183 posts in 300 days


#2 posted 08-24-2017 02:07 PM

I wouldn’t worry about the wood but possibly the glue?

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Monte Pittman

26333 posts in 2122 days


#3 posted 08-24-2017 02:14 PM

Depends on the type of glue. Titebond II or III would hold up though once.

Welcome to Lumberjocks

-- Mother Nature created it, I just assemble it.

View tomsteve's profile

tomsteve

593 posts in 1003 days


#4 posted 08-24-2017 02:15 PM

something else you can do to help keep it flat is screw/glue some cleats onto the bottom.

View JADobson's profile

JADobson

887 posts in 1895 days


#5 posted 08-24-2017 02:27 PM



something else you can do to help keep it flat is screw/glue some cleats onto the bottom.

- tomsteve

You can screw if you make elongated holes in the cleat first. Don’t glue. That is just asking for trouble.

-- No craft is very far from the line beyond which is magic. -- Lord Dunsany

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rwe2156

2664 posts in 1265 days


#6 posted 08-24-2017 03:38 PM


New to woodworking and have had a potential setback.

I do all my work outside.

You’ll be fixing a lot of stuff like this if you don’t move into a shop or at a minimum have some place to keep your materials equilibrized.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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darnes

28 posts in 60 days


#7 posted 08-26-2017 01:40 AM

I was using the Titebond III. I figured a tabletop would have spills so it wouldn’t hurt to have the waterproof.


Depends on the type of glue. Titebond II or III would hold up though once.

Welcome to Lumberjocks

- Monte Pittman


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darnes

28 posts in 60 days


#8 posted 08-26-2017 01:42 AM

Why would glue be a problem and not sure I understand the elongated holes comment. Can you provide some more detial?

You can screw if you make elongated holes in the cleat first. Don t glue. That is just asking for trouble.

- JADobson

something else you can do to help keep it flat is screw/glue some cleats onto the bottom.

- tomsteve

You can screw if you make elongated holes in the cleat first. Don t glue. That is just asking for trouble.

- JADobson


View TungOil's profile

TungOil

671 posts in 279 days


#9 posted 08-26-2017 01:50 AM


Why would glue be a problem and not sure I understand the elongated holes comment. Can you provide some more detial?

Because wood has ‘seasonal movement’- it expands and contracts along its width significantly more that along its length as the moisture content changes with the seasons & weather. That is why breadboard ends are typically only glued and/or pinned solidly in the center, but all of the pins on the edges of the table go through an elongated slot in the tenon.

Same would apply to a cleat on the bottom.

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

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darnes

28 posts in 60 days


#10 posted 08-26-2017 03:32 AM

ahhh Ok got ya :)

Why would glue be a problem and not sure I understand the elongated holes comment. Can you provide some more detial?

Because wood has seasonal movement – it expands and contracts along its width significantly more that along its length as the moisture content changes with the seasons & weather. That is why breadboard ends are typically only glued and/or pinned solidly in the center, but all of the pins on the edges of the table go through an elongated slot in the tenon.

Same would apply to a cleat on the bottom.

- TungOil


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WDHLT15

1682 posts in 2260 days


#11 posted 08-26-2017 11:08 AM

The surface moisture from the rain will dry pretty quickly. I would find a flat level place inside your house and put down a row of stickers (1” x 1” wood spacers) every 12” apart on the floor, put the table top on the stickers, add another layer of stickers, and then add weight on top. Position a box fan to blow air over the top, and leave it like this for 4or 5 days, a week would be better. The space created by the stickers allows air to move over both sides of the table top (air on both sides is critically important), and the 12” spacing on the stickers provides very good support for the table top as the moisture picked up from the rain dries.

-- Danny Located in Perry, GA. Forester. Wood-Mizer LT40HD35 Sawmill. Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln. hamsleyhardwood.com

View ChefHDAN's profile

ChefHDAN

971 posts in 2633 days


#12 posted 08-26-2017 01:31 PM

Titebond recommends chilling your glue when working in hi temps. I used to be in McKinney, would put the bottle in the fridge an hour or so ahead of a glue up and got at least 5 minutes of open time.

-- I've decided 1 mistake is really 2 opportunities to learn.. learn how to fix it... and learn how to not repeat it

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a1Jim

116335 posts in 3361 days


#13 posted 08-26-2017 02:10 PM

Welcome to Ljs darnes
I agree that you never glue cleats down for the reason that TungOil mentioned, wood movement. If your table top is still cupped turn the top so it has the concave side facing the sun for a while. If you’re going to work outside it would be a very good Idea to use Tite bond III for its water proof properties. Another issue is not all oak is weather resistant Red oak is not a good out door wood at all but White oak is a great out door wood.
Since your new and don’t seem to know about wood movement I suggest you do some research on Moisture content in wood and wood move ment.

Here are a couple links that may help

http://workshopcompanion.com/KnowHow/Design/Nature_of_Wood/2_Wood_Movement/2_Wood_Movement.htm

https://www.canadianwoodworking.com/tipstechniques/dealing-wood-movement

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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Nubsnstubs

1184 posts in 1514 days


#14 posted 08-26-2017 03:21 PM

Dobson is very correct. Do not use a long piece to span the seams. Explanation below.

Using TB3 and then getting rained on right away might be a concern. I think it takes about 2-4 weeks for the glue to cure to it’s waterproof state.

After 40 years in the business of cabinet/furniture making, I got real stupid about 3 years ago, and glued a strip across the back side of a raised panel drawer front to have a solid place to attach to the drawer box. Within 6 weeks, the fronts (2 of them) popped off the drawers, and looked a lot like potato chips. I brought them back to the shop, and after agonizing for some time, I realized I could cut the strips. The first cut popped when almost through, and the front straightened about half way. A couple more cuts, and it was flat. Same thing on the other. Experience is; you can glue up seams you think might come apart, but it can not be a solid long strip covering the width of the project.
Use pieces that are shorter than the width of each piece, in this case 8” wide. I would glue and screw in 5” strips equally across the seam, 2 1/2” on each side of the seam. ................ Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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