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Frog adjustment problem

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Forum topic by flanierraupe posted 08-22-2017 09:05 PM 434 views 0 times favorited 11 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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flanierraupe

4 posts in 28 days


08-22-2017 09:05 PM

Topic tags/keywords: plane stanley bailey frog

I recently bought a vintage Stanley Bailey No. 4 (Type 19 I think, I am new these tools) and after lapping sole and frog surface and putting it back together I found that the iron is skewed and I have to put the lateral adjustment lever almost completely to the right to get even shavings.

Whatever I try to align the frog, either the iron is skewed vertically or not perpendicular to the throat. From the top it looks fine:

throat_and_frog_upperside

But when I put in the iron (lateral adjustment lever in the middle) it looks like this from below:

throat_underside

When I look at the bottom areas where the frog rests on the sole, they seem asymmetrical. I added lines to make it more obvious.

frog_underside

And the side which has the smaller contact area in the picture above also seems to be fatter if I look on them from the front:

frog_front

The iron is pretty square and flat. I also tried an different cutting iron from a No. 5 and the problem is the same.

Am doing something wrong or is this a defect of manufacturing? And if so, how can I fix it? Should I try to file it down? I guess I would have to correct the upper contact area, too?

Thanks for any suggestions!
Stefan


11 replies so far

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Johnny7

321 posts in 841 days


#1 posted 08-22-2017 10:43 PM

First off, I’d like you to begin by moving the frog forward until the face of the frog (upon which the blade sits) is coplanar with that little ramp at the “frog” side of the mouth.

Loosen the frog screws slightly, and with only the blade installed, and with the lateral lever centered, see if you can twist the frog such that the blade protrusion is parallel to the mouth opening. If so, tighten the frog screws with the frog in this position.

I would caution against filing on the frog (as a first step) since, despite your photos, the frog, once installed, appears square/parallel to the mouth opening. (your photo 1)

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Loren

9281 posts in 3399 days


#2 posted 08-22-2017 10:55 PM

Can you pull a frog off another plane and
install it?

Doing so would establish whether the frog
is the problem.

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flanierraupe

4 posts in 28 days


#3 posted 08-23-2017 08:01 PM


First off, I d like you to begin by moving the frog forward until the face of the frog (upon which the blade sits) is coplanar with that little ramp at the “frog” side of the mouth.

Loosen the frog screws slightly, and with only the blade installed, and with the lateral lever centered, see if you can twist the frog such that the blade protrusion is parallel to the mouth opening. If so, tighten the frog screws with the frog in this position.

Actually the blade is parallel to the mouth opening when I position the frog like in the first image. But the blade edge is skewed vertically (so that it is not in the same plane as the sole).
I tried to twist the frog so that the edge is vertically more correct (so that it would take even shavings), but then it is not parallel to the mouth opening any more. And I still have to set the lateral adjustment lever quite a lot to one side to make it parallel and take even shavings.

I admit that this is a workaround, but it still feels like a quirk.

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flanierraupe

4 posts in 28 days


#4 posted 08-23-2017 08:05 PM


Can you pull a frog off another plane and
install it?

Doing so would establish whether the frog
is the problem.

- Loren

I tried another frog (from my Stanly Bailey No. 5) and it is definitely much better (although not perfect, but that can possibly be solved with some fine-tuning).

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Loren

9281 posts in 3399 days


#5 posted 08-23-2017 09:41 PM

It seems impractical to me to try to file
down the frog. As a workaround I suggest
grinding the iron out of square to compensate.

Over the years I have found myself working
with a plane where the lever had to be
pushed to one side to make an even cut.
I’ve usually attributed this to the iron being
out of square.

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2627 posts in 1232 days


#6 posted 08-23-2017 09:58 PM

Check the lands (areas where frog and sole touch) on both the frog and the sole to see if the frog is out of kilter (cocked laterally). The fact another frog is better makes me very suspicious of this.

If this is the case, a little selective filing should solve the problem.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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Loren

9281 posts in 3399 days


#7 posted 08-23-2017 10:11 PM

In your first picture the frog appears to
be set slightly back from the mouth. This
could conceivably cause the iron to hang
up on the back edge of the plane mouth.

I haven’t fussed with a plane frog in awhile
and I can’t say from memory what the
“sweet spot” is but I am sure the iron
should be bedded against the frog alone.

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flanierraupe

4 posts in 28 days


#8 posted 08-24-2017 09:28 PM

OK, I worked up my courage to file the frog and it came out very good! ;-)

First I put some washers under the contact areas of the frog on one side to find out how much the difference is.

frog_washers

I installed everything with the washers in place and it worked nicely on the first try. I could leave the lateral adjustment lever in the middle and get even shavings.
I measured the thickness of the washers (1 mm) and made marks on the side of the frog accordingly with a knife and a calliper. The I filed it down to the marks and tried to get it as flat as possible (and everything in the same plane). I had to sand the upper part on a granite tile, because I was not able to do it with the file. I test-fitted it occasionally.

After I could feel no more wobble, I put everything back together and: ta-da! It fits great and I can leave the lever almost exactly in the middle. I am much happier now. ;-)

Thanks again for all of the suggestions!

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Johnny7

321 posts in 841 days


#9 posted 08-24-2017 10:32 PM

Good job—congrats!

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Tim

3552 posts in 1712 days


#10 posted 08-25-2017 11:51 AM

Nice work, that’s next level plane repair for sure. Glad you got it fixed.

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waho6o9

7954 posts in 2328 days


#11 posted 08-25-2017 12:54 PM

Most excellent, congrats

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