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Curing Runout on My Craftsman Alien

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Forum topic by builtinbkyn posted 08-03-2017 03:58 PM 555 views 0 times favorited 27 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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builtinbkyn

1924 posts in 779 days


08-03-2017 03:58 PM

I purchased the drill press off of CL last year and have used it as is, well other than giving it a good cleaning. However I knew there was some runout and now want to address it. Does anyone have an idea where to start to look for the source? How to evaluate what’s causing it? ie quill, spindle, bearings, etc?

This is the model: 103.24811

-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)


27 replies so far

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HokieKen

4515 posts in 977 days


#1 posted 08-03-2017 04:07 PM

How are you indicating the runout Bill? Dial indicator? I would start by measuring runout on the quill. If the quill is true, you can get the rest true. If the quill is not running true, you have to fix that. How to fix it will depend on what’s causing it.

My first step would be to measure runout on the quill, on the tapered shaft above the Jacobs chuck and on a round bar or drill rod that you KNOW is round that’s chucked up in the Jacobs. Record the amount of runout at all 3 locations and make a mark with a sharpie where the high spot is in each case. The marks should all line up but if not, better to know that now than later. Before indicating though, I’d clean the tapered shaft, the mating surface in the quill and the chuck.

Let us know what you get and we can go from there. That’s a damn sexy machine by the way!

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

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builtinbkyn

1924 posts in 779 days


#2 posted 08-03-2017 04:11 PM

Well I didn’t measure it yet, but I can see it with my eye that it’s not spinning true. There’s a distinct wobble. I’ll have to set up a jig to measure it with a dial indicator.

-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)

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HokieKen

4515 posts in 977 days


#3 posted 08-03-2017 04:56 PM

Can you see wobble in the quill or just in the chuck? Just because you can’t see wobble in the quill doesn’t mean it’s not there, it’ll be amplified at the chuck. But if there’s obvious runout in the quill, that’s where to start.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

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Redoak49

2903 posts in 1827 days


#4 posted 08-03-2017 05:40 PM

You need to figure out if it is the chuck or something else. You could also find the manual and replace any bearings. If you have quill slop, there is not much you can do.

I had a Jet drill press with quill slop and no way to adjust. I sold it to get a better drill press

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MrUnix

6006 posts in 2037 days


#5 posted 08-03-2017 06:36 PM

Nice press… the “100” model if I’m not mistaken. Given it’s age and unknown history (CL purchase), I’d go ahead and pull the spindle/quill. That would let you give them a good once over to verify they are not bent or damaged, and let you go ahead and put in some fresh bearings. IIRC, it has two 6202-5/8, and two 6205 bearings – but you can verify once you open it up. If you don’t already, get the manual/parts list that will help figuring out what goes where.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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HokieKen

4515 posts in 977 days


#6 posted 08-03-2017 06:46 PM

I’d agree that it’s a good idea to pull it apart and swap the bearings out. Bearings are cheap and new ones won’t make anything worse.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

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builtinbkyn

1924 posts in 779 days


#7 posted 08-03-2017 06:48 PM

Yeah I’m going to start with the bearings first. I think I can replace those without pulling the chuck – which I’m not exactly sure how to do :) It’s not a Morse taper. I believe it’s force fit onto the spindle and need wedges to remove it?

-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)

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HokieKen

4515 posts in 977 days


#8 posted 08-03-2017 06:56 PM

Probably. That’s how Morse taper works. There should be a slot in the spindle shaft where you put a knock-out wedge to release the taper lock. Like on your lathe but you’re using a wedge from the side instead of a bar from the back.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

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MrUnix

6006 posts in 2037 days


#9 posted 08-03-2017 06:56 PM

The chuck should be a Jacobs taper, but it also has a threaded collar… I believe all you need to do is unscrew the threaded collar and then tap the chuck off the taper. I’m not 100% familiar with that particular model (mine is an older Atlas made model from 1937), but on some, the threaded collar can also be used to push the chuck off the taper. On mine, you just use a wedge to push it off (or screwdrivers, or a ball joint pickle fork, or whatever else you happen to have available at the time :)

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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builtinbkyn

1924 posts in 779 days


#10 posted 08-03-2017 07:12 PM


The chuck should be a Jacobs taper, but it also has a threaded collar… I believe all you need to do is unscrew the threaded collar and then tap the chuck off the taper. I m not 100% familiar with that particular model (mine is an older Atlas made model from 1937), but on some, the threaded collar can also be used to push the chuck off the taper. On mine, you just use a wedge to push it off (or screwdrivers, or a ball joint pickle fork, or whatever else you happen to have available at the time :)

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix


Ah OK. Thinking it may be threaded (I have the original manual with and exploded diagram, but it doesn’t show one way or the other) I chucked up a large allen key. Then I used a spanner on the key and a large set of channel locks on the collar and tried to turn the chuck. The collar spun. So that’s how I will remove the chuck – use two pieces of tool steel pinched between the collar and the chuck, to force the chuck off of the spindle. I thought that’s how it might work. Thanks for confirming that Brad. After doing that, I’ll get the dial indicator set up to check the runout on the spindle.

Edit: There must be a special tool for the collar. It has three holes in it where some kind of wrench must fit.

-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)

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JHub

5 posts in 137 days


#11 posted 08-03-2017 07:21 PM

If it’s anything like my floor model from the same vintage it’s simply pressed/held on the taper with the threaded collar. The method that Brad described, using the collar to force off the chuck, is the same method that I used to pull mine off more times than I could count to try to get mine trued up.

When you go to replace the bearings be sure that you get the thin diameter inner instead of the standard. The outside diameter may be correct but there are a couple different inside tolerances for that size bearing… if you look for them locally at a parts store I think you will be frustrated by your search as I was.

They’re awesome old presses, wish I would’ve kept mine but I found it in my way more often than I was using it in my little garage.

-Joe

-- Joe, Houston Lake, MO

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MrUnix

6006 posts in 2037 days


#12 posted 08-03-2017 07:33 PM

If it’s anything like my floor model from the same vintage [...]

AFAIK, the head and tables are identical between the bench and floor models… only difference is the length of the column and I believe the floor model had a larger base.

As for the pin spanner needed to get the collar off.. would be nice to have one, but not 100% required. Here is a thread over at the OWWM site that you might get some useful information from:

Craftsman 100 DP Restore

They talk about removing the chuck on the second page of that thread.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: And Joe is correct about the smaller bearings having a non-standard inner race size.. They should be standard 6202’s but with an inner race (bore) size of 5/8” instead of the usual 15mm metric size. Just make sure whoever you get the bearings from is aware of that and you should be fine. Of course, measuring to verify first before purchase is always recommended :)

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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builtinbkyn

1924 posts in 779 days


#13 posted 08-03-2017 07:37 PM

Thanks Joe. I think that method will work. I guess that’s exactly what the collar is for. Don’t see any other function it could serve.

I’ll pull the bearings first to see what they look like and if they’re marked to identify them. I found a couple of good sources for bearings online, when I was having issues with my lathe.

-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)

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builtinbkyn

1924 posts in 779 days


#14 posted 08-03-2017 08:56 PM



If it’s anything like my floor model from the same vintage [...]

AFAIK, the head and tables are identical between the bench and floor models… only difference is the length of the column and I believe the floor model had a larger base.

As for the pin spanner needed to get the collar off.. would be nice to have one, but not 100% required. Here is a thread over at the OWWM site that you might get some useful information from:

Craftsman 100 DP Restore

They talk about removing the chuck on the second page of that thread.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: And Joe is correct about the smaller bearings having a non-standard inner race size.. They should be standard 6202 s but with an inner race (bore) size of 5/8” instead of the usual 15mm metric size. Just make sure whoever you get the bearings from is aware of that and you should be fine. Of course, measuring to verify first before purchase is always recommended :)

- MrUnix

Thanks for that link and the info on the bearings. When I get back to the shop, I’ll measure the diameter of the collar and the holes. Amazon has an adjustable spanner for 12 bucks. That would be a much better tool to do this than the channel locks, which will mar the collar. Just need to confirm those measurements.

I’m wondering if the chuck could be seated better. If it’s on a little skewed, it would produce some runout. Is it possible for it to not be on perfectly aligned with the spindle?

-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)

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builtinbkyn

1924 posts in 779 days


#15 posted 08-04-2017 06:32 PM

So after pulling the chuck, this is the runout I get on the spindle.

Now what to do about it. Leave well enough alone or try to fix it? .0025 seems a bit much to accept? I’m sure it’s exacerbated with the chuck on and at the end of a long bit and why I’m able to see some wobble.

Now how to I find what’s causing the runout? Could it be the taper on the end of the spindle? I could swear I can see an inconsistency in the taper (one side pitched differently than the other). Should I just simply change the bearings first and then take another measurement?

-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)

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