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Asked my grandfather(mothers father) if he had any opinion on a TS brand.. here was his answer

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Forum topic by newbiewoodworker posted 01-02-2011 11:24 PM 2283 views 0 times favorited 81 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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newbiewoodworker

668 posts in 1579 days


01-02-2011 11:24 PM

He answered to me, that there was a time when brand mattered. Nowdays, all that matters is the factory number where its made in China… he said we are lucky if its Tiwanese now…

I thought that was pretty insightful, since thats really all it boils down to. Factory 1020451 might be better at Qual Control than Factory 2515612… Even though they are all stamped “Grizzly” or “Delta” or other…

-- "Ah, So your not really a newbie, but a I betterbie."


81 replies so far

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richgreer

4525 posts in 1826 days


#1 posted 01-02-2011 11:33 PM

To some degree, I think your grandfather is right.

However, I think some brands impose different specifications and quality standards onto their Chinese manufacturing plants (e.g. Powermatic probably requires a higher quality standard than Jet). Also, there is at least one exception with the SawStop built in the USA (last I heard).

-- Rich, Cedar Rapids, IA - I'm a woodworker. I don't create beauty, I reveal it.

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Steven H

1114 posts in 1812 days


#2 posted 01-03-2011 12:49 AM

You would think that Powermatic bandsaw is better quality than Jet, Grizzly bandsaw’s. WRONG, they all mostly come same factory. Manufacturers are followed by the Costumer specifications.

A factory that has ISO 9001 does not mean it is better than a factory that doesn’t have one.
They can slip in quality.

View live4ever's profile

live4ever

983 posts in 1762 days


#3 posted 01-03-2011 01:23 AM

Yep – what makes American companies successful nowadays is their ability to contract with the RIGHT people/factories oversees and manage those relationships well, while maintaining the quality control they want.

Apple manages to do this quite well in the electronics industry. They have very tight tolerances and specs they want their stuff built to, but it all happens in China and Taiwan.

-- Optimists are usually disappointed. Pessimists are either right or pleasantly surprised. I tend to be a disappointed pessimist.

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JuniorJoiner

451 posts in 2192 days


#4 posted 01-03-2011 01:50 AM

live4ever, that is what made your great nation what it is today. you found a way to export money and jobs at the same time. wonderful, at least everyone can buy cheap stuff at walmart.

-- Junior -Quality is never an accident-it is the reward for the effort involved.

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twiceisnice

95 posts in 1579 days


#5 posted 01-03-2011 01:53 AM

YOU CANNOT COMPARE GRIZZLY TO POWERMATIC . I HEARD A RUMOR THAT GRIZZLY IS COMING OUT WITH A NEW BANSAW THAT GOES FROM 6” TO 50” RESAW CAP WITH A BEER HOLDER A SWIVEL TV MONITER MOUNT , INTERNET HOOKUP , RUNS ON 12V,110V, 220V, 360V , 480V, SINGLEPHASE, 3PHASE, USES A 1\32 BLADE WIDTH TO 6” BLADE WIDTH , BLADE LENGTH FROM 6” TO 12’ ,AUTO BLADE TENSIONING ,CAN GO FROM BANDSAW TO LARGE JIGSAW , TABLE ADJUSTS FROM 1 SQ FT TO A WOPPING 200 SQ FT. THEIRS NO GUIDE BEARINGS , ITS ALL MAGNETIC FOR COOL RUNNING BLADES. OOOOOOO WAIT A MINUTE. IT ALSO FOLDS UP AND WILL FIT INTO SMALL SUITCASE FOR EASY STORAGE. IM GOING TO GET ME ONE OF THESE . WHY PAY MORE FOR A GOOD QUALITY TOOL WHEN I CAN GET ONE OF THESE AT 1/4 OR 1/2 THE PRICE.

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lilredweldingrod

2495 posts in 1859 days


#6 posted 01-03-2011 02:37 AM

Hey twiceisnice, I hear Conan O’Brien is looking for a good comedy writer. You can capitalize on these rumors and wind up with a new shopful of new foldaway equipment. he he he Great stuff.

View newbiewoodworker's profile

newbiewoodworker

668 posts in 1579 days


#7 posted 01-03-2011 02:38 AM

lololol… Can’t forget the footrest… or the lazyboy that comes attached…

I read awhile agom things like this are manufactured in shifts:

Shift 1: Skilled Craftsmen, making $min or above: PM, Laguana, Fued, Festool, General
Shift 2: Semi Skilled Labourers, making $min or below: Delta, Grizzly, Jet, GI
Shift 3: Unskilled Chimanzees: making far below $min. Often seen eating bananas and swinging from sprinkler lines.: Harbour Freight, Powertec, Wally-World-Special…

-- "Ah, So your not really a newbie, but a I betterbie."

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TopamaxSurvivor

15088 posts in 2428 days


#8 posted 01-03-2011 05:38 AM

Conan O’Brien could use one that is for sure :-)) Newbie, that pretty well sums up most products manufacturing processes.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View chewbuddy13's profile

chewbuddy13

150 posts in 2037 days


#9 posted 01-03-2011 09:30 PM

I just want to know why everyone thinks that if something was made in America it is automatically superior to something foreign? I read a lot of China\Taiwan bashing on LJ’s, and then I read a lot of 5 star reviews of Grizzly, Jet, Powermatic, etc. tools that were made in said countries. If American made is so superior then why did all the American car companies tank? If American made was so superior how did Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes get such a strong foothold in the US market? Festool are the best power tools being sold at the moment, and they are German. What makes an American worker superior to a Chinese worker, do you think that only Americans take pride in their jobs, and want to do quality work? I’m not trying to start a fight but I get very irritated at this attitude on LJ’s.

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DrDirt

2597 posts in 2494 days


#10 posted 01-03-2011 10:14 PM

Chew – I think the China Taiwan bashing is not about things made in China but the outsourcing of AMERICAN brands.
If instead China operated more like your festool example, and the “Fong Lee Toolworks” came in the market with products that went head to head with the American and other brands, in the same way Honda BMW Toyota etc. did with cars, people would be less irate about what I would call True head to Head competition – and let the best product win.
Instead you have Powermatic, Delta, Oliver etc, that were iconic brands, now just outsourced to the lowest bidder. Beyond that differences have gone away. Just as Newbie’s grandfather stated. Now everything is largely the same, except for color and a few percentage points on price.

-- "If we did all the things we are capable of doing, we would literally astonish ourselves." Edison

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chewbuddy13

150 posts in 2037 days


#11 posted 01-03-2011 10:16 PM

Cessna…

Very well said, I agree 100% about innovation (just look at Sawstop). I think the other thing that has killed American manufacturing is the Unions. We have to deal with Iron Workers Unions at my workplace. They get paid about $32 an hour, with benefits and dues, it costs our company about $80 an hour per Union employee. I understand that they are “skilled labor”, but so am I. I am the IT manager for our company and I don’t make anywhere near $32 an hour.

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newbiewoodworker

668 posts in 1579 days


#12 posted 01-03-2011 10:42 PM

Chew: Unions are vital. Without Unions, employers could do practically anything. Before Unions came about, if a man lost a finger in a punch press, for example, he could be fired for slowing work… Men could be expected to perform maintainance on running machinery. Men could be expected to work 4-to-9 in a Blizzard.

But Unions helped to control this. They helped to maximize safety. Even before OSHA.

And when employees werent happy with conditions, they could strike. Before Unions, anyone who strikes, could be fired, or beaten.

Unions also helped with this. If you treated your employees like dogs, they could in essence, shut your buisness down on you, until you began treating them right.

-- "Ah, So your not really a newbie, but a I betterbie."

View chewbuddy13's profile

chewbuddy13

150 posts in 2037 days


#13 posted 01-03-2011 10:53 PM

Newbie:

I think you mean Unions “were” vital. At one time they were, but not anymore. Now we have labor laws and Gov’t regulations for workplace standards, brought about in no small part by the Unions. The conditions that your are speaking about happened a long time ago. Union’s demanding super high wages for the Auto and manufacturing industry have pretty much killed those industries in the US.

View mfike's profile

mfike

100 posts in 2418 days


#14 posted 01-03-2011 11:05 PM

Chew and newbie, either way someone is getting screwed. Unions go overboard with wages and a lot of other things. On the other hand, businesses without unions can get away with mistreating employees to some extent. I know what you’re talking about chew, but big corporations still stick it to the little man where they wouldn’t get away with it if union was present. Either way someone will get the short end of the stick. There seems to be no middleground. Just my .02

Mitch

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newbiewoodworker

668 posts in 1579 days


#15 posted 01-03-2011 11:06 PM

Chew:Your Opinion, and I respect that… but clearly our opinions differ. I believe they still ARE vital. Otherwise Americans would have to work for Wheat Bread, rather than Pumpernickle..

-- "Ah, So your not really a newbie, but a I betterbie."

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