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Titebond glue joint failure

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Forum topic by greatview posted 07-15-2017 04:38 PM 828 views 0 times favorited 21 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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greatview

126 posts in 2990 days


07-15-2017 04:38 PM

Imagine a picture frame and one corner fails. I’d rather not break the opposing joint so that I can cleanly remove any glue residue (I can if I have to). I could probably get some “super glue” to wick into the joint. I might be able to get some other glue into the joint. The wood is cherry and the original glue is Tightbond II. I’ve done dozens of the same joint and never had a failure. It may have been over stressed but I’d like to repair it as easily as possible. Thoughts??

-- Tom, New London, NH


21 replies so far

View Dustin's profile

Dustin

404 posts in 573 days


#1 posted 07-15-2017 04:47 PM

Is it fully separated, or just cracking?

If it were me, and the crack was large enough, maybe try to slide in a piece of sandpaper to scuff the inside of the joint, then try to apply glue in a similar fashion (using a thin piece of scrap to apply inside)?

-- "Ladies, if your husband says he'll get to it, he'll get to it. No need to remind him about it every 6 months."

View Ripper70's profile

Ripper70

603 posts in 741 days


#2 posted 07-15-2017 04:49 PM

Do you think perhaps a corrugated nail or two would work instead of re-gluing?

-- "You know, I'm such a great driver, it's incomprehensible that they took my license away." --Vince Ricardo

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greatview

126 posts in 2990 days


#3 posted 07-15-2017 05:30 PM

The joint is still tight but fully separated as I can move one piece relative to the other slightly. A corrugated nail really would’t work as the material is cherry and fairly dense and hard. Also not thick enough.
I’ve attached a photo and you’ll see that it is a set of nesting tables and one of the corners (smallest table) has separated. If I must, I can refinish the repaired table.

-- Tom, New London, NH

View bigJohninvegas's profile

bigJohninvegas

382 posts in 1295 days


#4 posted 07-15-2017 05:43 PM

Wow that’s a tough repair. What about a spline on the underside? Can you remove the legs to get to it? Just like a Domino, or dowel except exposed from the bottom.

-- John

View SignWave's profile

SignWave

440 posts in 2868 days


#5 posted 07-15-2017 05:52 PM

That’s very attractive, and I like the aesthetics and the light tones in that cherry.

It looks like end-grain to end-grain joint. I would consider something like a spline to support the joint, or else open the joint completely and add a biscuit, dowel, or floating tenon. I understand your hesitation, but I think that just hoping the glue will hold an end grain joint is optimistic, especially over time.

-- Barry, http://BarrysWorkshop.com/

View greatview's profile

greatview

126 posts in 2990 days


#6 posted 07-15-2017 06:07 PM

I’ve made a dozen or more sets over the last few years and never had a joint fail. I’ve thought about some type of reinforcement (spline, dowel, etc.) but never did as I had no joint problems in the past. What I may do is to make a new top for the one that’s failed and use the old top for a new set after cleaning out the glue. With a narrow kerf blade I could split the opposing joint and have a top slightly smaller. Or, just ignore the size difference and reinstall the top to the leg assembly. Here’s a better photo of the assembly. I typically give these to local charities which sell them on auction and they sell for about $300 per set.

-- Tom, New London, NH

View Rich's profile

Rich

1970 posts in 422 days


#7 posted 07-15-2017 06:08 PM

I’d be temped to try staples. The T50 staplers are powerful enough to drive it flat to the surface (not flush though). The 1/4” crown staples are heavier gauge and the pneumatic stapler should be able to drive it flush, but you need the gun and a compressor.

It seems like you should be able to open the joint enough to get some glue in there without breaking the other joints and that would help stabilize the joint however you choose to strengthen it mechanically.

-- No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

View SignWave's profile

SignWave

440 posts in 2868 days


#8 posted 07-15-2017 06:14 PM

Those are very attractive.

-- Barry, http://BarrysWorkshop.com/

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

1171 posts in 1631 days


#9 posted 07-15-2017 06:17 PM

The miter joint has no jointery? Just glue on the end grain if so I think your ahead of the game.
They are nice looking tables and design

-- Aj

View Planeman40's profile

Planeman40

1033 posts in 2594 days


#10 posted 07-15-2017 06:39 PM

If you failed to spread glue on both sides of the joint before assembling, this may have cause the joint failure. Titebond is a really good glue and I see it as unlikely that a properly glued joint would have failed unless under extreme stress. Some people only spread glue on one side of the joint and this doesn’t give you the strongest joint. I learned a lot about gluing wood when I was building my first homebuilt airplane. Nothing makes you more focused and knowledgeable than building something that might kill you! : )

-- Always remember: It is a mathematical certainty that half the people in this country are below average in intelligence!

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

3626 posts in 2142 days


#11 posted 07-15-2017 07:14 PM

How about a bow tie across the back side. flush of course

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View JackDuren's profile

JackDuren

327 posts in 792 days


#12 posted 07-15-2017 09:57 PM

I don’t think this was glue failure but rather the butt joint, It needed more than glue. Spline,dowels,Domino,etc

View greatview's profile

greatview

126 posts in 2990 days


#13 posted 07-15-2017 10:06 PM

I agree that a spline (or whatever) would strengthen the joint but I’ve made many of this design (maybe 15 – 20 sets with twelve joints in each set – 200 joints or more) without an issue and was hoping to find a solution to the broken joint that I now have.

-- Tom, New London, NH

View Gene Howe's profile

Gene Howe

9745 posts in 3261 days


#14 posted 07-15-2017 11:01 PM

On end grain joints, I always spread a very thin coat of glue on both surfaces. (I use TBII, also). I use my finger and really work it in. When it dries it has effectively sealed the pores so it won’t suck up the new glue and starve the joint. Which, I suspect happened in your case.

-- Gene 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

5455 posts in 2646 days


#15 posted 07-16-2017 04:55 AM

That actually doesn’t surprise me at all that a relatively small miter joint failed. It isn’t the glue, but the very nature of the joint used. In the future I would use a #20 biscuit at each corner.

As far as a quick fix for the current project… what about a pocket screw from underneath? Use a clamp to align the parts when driving the screw. The smaller Kreg jigs would work great. A little more glue wouldn’t hurt if you can work it into the joint.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

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