Wanted... Tips for gluing up larger panels

well i like to use parallel clamps for all my glue ups but if you don’t have parallel clamps or ones that are big enough than pipe clamps are a quick and easy solution.

for glue i usually use Titebond 2 for all my glue ups and it hasn’t failed me yet

for amount or glue i put as much as i can on and cover the whole surface to be glued in a thick layer and then crank the clamps down and you should be good.

Theres likely a lot of differnt methods

I place my planks on saw horses (perpendicular to the horse) and do a test first, one clamp to make sure the joints close with little effort, also look at the grain to match it up as nice as possible.

I number the joints in pencil, #1 to #1, #2 to #2 and so on

I cut biscuits into the edge near the bottom so that glue in the biscuit doesnt expand and show down the road. The cookies/biscuits keep the boards lined up and even.

I get enough bar clamps so that have one for every foot of length.

Fill a glue bottle (I use tite bond III as its water proof when set, has a longer open time and is brownish in colour and it doesnt clog up sand paper)

I tip the boards on edge and put a dab of glue in each biscuit hole and insert the biscuits (this stops the glue from draining out). I then turn the boards on its oppiste edge with cookies facing down. I then put a dab of glue in the balance of the cookie holes. Then a place two thick beads of glue down the edges that need it using myopposite hand to keep the beads straight and then smooth the glue with my index to cover the entire edge. It isnt neccassary to glue the edge of the last board which I leave flat on the horses

One by one I put the boards together and then starting at the middle of the panel apply pipe clamps with just enough pressure to close the joint. From the center working out I alternate pipe clamps, one on top, one below, one on top, one below….......etc

I often go back and place a cookie under the clamps on what would be the exposed surface of the panel so that the glue, that squeezes out, doesnt touch the clamp leaving the a black mark.

I remove the excess glue with a wet rag or I wait until it gels and scrap it off.

Cheers

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

A common error is that folks put so much pressure on the clamps that it forces all the glue out which can cause joint failure down the road. You only need enough pressure to “close” the joint…plus a small pinch but dont crank it for all your worth. If the joint wont close by applying moderate force then the joint wasn’t good to begin with. You want the glue to saturate the wood fibres, The faster you glue it up, as a rule, the stronger the joints.

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

and one more thing. I sometimes get four “straight boards, 1’ wide by the width of the panel. When done glueing up clamping…....on each end, I place one on top and one on the bottom and clamp them flat to ensure even ends on the panel

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

Roman – While I do sometimes reach for biscuits for edge-gluing, I’ve found they aren’t always 100% necessary. With a well edge planed board, you can do nicely with just straight clamp pressure. However, a few biscuits to align longer boards never hurts!

-- Tom's Workbench - http://tomsworkbench.com

Like some of the others I use biscuits after putting the cutting pattern on the boards to determine biscuit location. I keep a damp sponge handy and wipe up the excess squeeze out to make the clean up easier. On pieces that will be stained I will put blue painters tape as close to the joint as possible.

-- Genius is immediate, but talent takes time.

I use pipe clamps for all of our glue-ups. The one thing to remember is use clamps on both sides of the board. This will help keep the board flat and if the glue isn’t squeezing out, there’s not enough

-- Illegitimis nil carborundum - Don't let the bastards grind you down http://woodworkingtipsfrompop.com

I also use a lot of cauls and C-clamps to hold it flat. Furniture wax on the cauls will keep them from sticking to the glue.

-- Thos. Angle, Owyhee Design, Oregon

I would like to thank everyone for your input.
I have enough cut offs to try them all and decide which I like best.
I will post pictures once it’s done.

-- If we learn from our mistakes, I'm getting a fantastic education.

#20 bisquets…and gravy! Sorry…It’s breakfast time here! Bisquets will align your boards and are easier than dowels. That Festool Domino might be alright too, but I haven’t experience with one because I prefer to stay happily married. “Happily married”...That’s an oxymoron ain’t it?

-- Bob Vila would be so proud of you!

I’d agree with folks to use cauls for sure…thick cauls that run across the boards then clamped with C-clamps will help keep the board even (even if you use biscuits I suggest cauls). I recommend a thick caul b/c thinner pieces won’t do much to distribute even pressure across the boards. You can either use wax as Thos. Angle noted or put some clear packing tape across the length to help prevent it from sticking.

Nobody else noted it but it should be a standard practice for all woodworkers. Perhaps something we all do (read: should) but I’ll mention it again: dry run assembly. Don’t just toss glue on these pieces and go at it…make sure you do a dry run to see how the board come together. It also gets all your clamps together so you real glue up goes forward with a little less stress.

I use pipe clamps for all my glue ups and haven’t had a problem yet. As a rule of thumb tighten them no more than your weak hand can go without much effort (for me I use my left hand to tighten before I reach the limit).

I always let my glue set up for about a hour or longer then scrap it off before tossing the clamp up in the corner overnight. I’ve found this to work much better than trying to clean up later.

Good luck!

best deal I’ve found is to use a glue-joint bit and table router. Amana tool sells them, bit works great, creates a very good joint.

-- Pretzel L8agn

For large panels, I use a locking joint bit or biscuits. This helps with lineing up the boards. To help keep them flat, I use a couple of peices of angle iron acroos the boards. This will keep the boards flat.

I use biscuts for alignment (fastest solution I’ve found so far) but if the wood is less than 3/4” thick, I don’t glue the biscuts. They are just in there for alignment anyway. I use pipe clamps alternating from top to bottom spaced close enough so if you were to put a 45 deg out from each clamp, they woud intersect the next clamp before they meet at the glue joint. I also use cauls across the ends of the panels. I don’t put biscuts within 6 to 8 inches from the ends so the cauls help keep the ends flat (once had few go wild on me, not pretty)

I use Titebond III for glue, mainly because I use it a lot for cutting boards and never got around to getting anything else. Don’t use poly glue (Gorilla) it’s very weak and I’ve had a few glue ups fail because of it. I put on the glue with an acid brush on both sides, probably over kill but better safe than sorry. I never wipe glue while it’s wet, it can leave a glue mark that you may not catch until you finish the project. Its safer to scrape it off after it sets up a bit (turns sort of rubbery) or wait till it dries completely and scrape it down.

-- Greg - Charles Town, WV

I’ve never been much of a biscuit fan myself (prefer splines), but for sure, cauls are a must, one on each end. You can get as fancy as you want with them, but I use pine. 2×4s that have been smoothed and jointed. The bottom caul should be flat, and the top should have a slight convexity, so that when you clamp them (across the boards, on on top, one below) the top caul distributes pressure evenly. I also put clear packing tape on them so the glue doesn’t stick. I prop the panel up on glue blocks (also pine, also covered with packing tape.) Clamp your panels together with parellel clamps (like the Bessey K-body) if you have them, but if you don’t – pipe clamps or whatever you have in the shop. (If you don’t have clamps, you can make a wedge-clamping jig.) Use good ol’ Titebond, buttering both edges of the boards, but not overdoing it. Tighten the clamps until you get a bit of squeeze out, clamp down the cauls, and if necessary, give the seam a few whacks with a dead-blow mallet just to be sure everthing is even. I dont remove the squeeze out until it’s mostly dry – if you try wiping it off, you just get a big old smear. It comes off easily when dry with a card scraper or a #80. Let us know how it comes out!

-- "No Board Left Behind"

I guess I use an unorthodox method. I glue up large boards vertically. I clamp the bottom one in a “workmate” with the ends hangin over both sides (I check with a level to get the bottom board vertical (plumb) and level). If the edges are square and straight, the boards will sit on top of each other after a little “rubbing in” of the wet glue joint (ie sliding the boards a little against each other until the glue starts to get sticky – I also use Titebond II or III). After I get as many as I feel comfortable with, I clamp and caul the overhanging ends. At this point, the assembly can be laid flat for any needed clamps/cauls in the center. The advantages of this method:
1. Before glue up it is easy to see any bad joints as light will show between the boards, or they will rock or pivot easily on each other. I fine tune with a plane until they match perfectly and set firm.
2. You can easily see and have access to both sides to correct any misalignment before the glue sets.

However it is a technique you will want to dry run first until you get comfortable with it.

Just a thought,

Go

-- Go http://ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=730

All of the above suggestions carry merit.
I am agreement with the ” over tightening” issue also. It is a common temptation but not only unneeded but in many cases determinative. Learn to apply just enough pressure to fix the positioning of the pieces and back off.
I used titebond 2 for years but switched over to their no 3 also. The dull tan dried remains are clearly visible and is easy to remove. I wipe as much residue clean with a wet cloth as quickly as possible.
I save scrap poly sheeting, strip it to the size I require and place these strips wherever I do not wish the glue to take, and they can be reused many times. { old school cheapo ].
My approach to large cabinet, wall and wainscot panels however is some what different to the ones suggested.
The if you need a tool buy one policy goes equally as well for jigs and fixtures.
Note:
Most wasted time , errors, and expense can be traced directly back to not taking the time that is demanded to set up the work in a good workman like manner, and most of us learn this the hard way .Some jigs and or fixtures will require the expenditure of certain funds; but good planing theory, i.e. ” THE THOUGHT BEFORE THE ACT ” and sketching out a jig/fixture is more economically done with the eraser . And a darn sight cheaper than wood.
My work is strictly custom and once I got into rather large dived wall panels , entertainment centers, large cupboards and so on I saw the need to gear up if I was going to continue this avenue.
I began by fabricating a 4’ x 8’ table , a little low, 30”
After the frame was made I topped it using 2 3/4” layers of ply wood and screwed both to the deeper than usual cross members to eliminate any chance of sags across the entire length and width.
I finished the surface with 1/4” hardened Masonite providing an easy to clean / maintain surface.
I am also a big believer in the use of cauls and made up mine from 2×4 and 2×6 stock. then after cutting a 1/4” long sweep radius and trimming them up with a sander, set them aside ready for use.
I still have the same ones after all these years.
Again, I employ poly strips; but I can see the advantage also in the use of a good wax as some have mentioned.
Clamping is a critical step and it must be done in good time which brings me to the last stage of the fixture top.
Because my panels would at one time extend to the edge but yet in another situation take up only a portion of the top, I drilled lay ed out holes 3” dia. spaced evenly along the top.
This allowed for clamps to be inserted to grab the underside of the table and to grip the cauls wherever I wished a caul and used this method in conjunction with 4’ and 6’ bar clamps across the width as required.
This method is really faster than it might sound, is sure, and you gain a surface that is as flat as you can make it allowing for the squareness and straightness of the stock.
A well flattened panel section saves a lot of finish sanding.
Unless I read one of the entries amiss I invert my cauls, i.e. place the curved section down to the work face.
The spring action of the curved surface then pulls down at the center first to get the hard to reach area of the panel.
If you opt for a flat 2×4 and clamp the edges you will more likely than not end up sticking some shims at various points along the width to achieve a near result as using a conventional caul. Sorry about the length of this but without seeing such a set up it would be hard to condense.
Sure hope that this may help, Norm.

just another thing. like some other people said it is a good idea to clamp a scrap board across the joints to make sure the boards are flat.

FOLLOW UP on post submitted:
My reasoning for a lower than normal bench will become self evident when you begin to assemble the carcass’s height allows for positioning, flipping the piece during assembly, etc
.Most larger panels will range anywhere from 40” – to  90 + ” for full wall units and or paneling projects. You will need sets of cauls that meet the width requirements of your work. I.e. 30” for mid size, 24” for smaller, and 48” for larger etc, but you should find a happy medium and only need 3 to 4 sets of the same size
.I think that you will enjoy the 8’ length very well even when not using the total length at all times.
Next deduct all of the accumulated rail widths from your overall dimension. Using the rule [ simple but accurate ], divide the remainder by 8.Take the result of your findings and multiply that figure by 5 and you will arrive at the proper ratio of top to bottom panels. Do not forget to add on the tails or amount required to have the panels sit into their respective grooves.
This is accurate for doors as well
.Example: A wall 96”high less a 7-1/4” base rail, less a 5-1/2” center rail, less a 4-1/2” top rail = 78-3/4”.Using the 10” figure for simplicity that dimension divided by 8 =9.84375 [ which I would round off  to 9-7/8” or 10”.
Using the 10” figure for simplicity and multiplying by 5 [ 10×5 ]= a  50  ” top panel and a 28-3/4” [ rounded off]. Excluding the rails. Less the materials needed to sit into the grooves.
This same principle applies to locating the knobs on doors. As almost all knobs are not centered but are positioned by the 5 factor. A 28” to 30” wainscot height is elegant but you may choose a higher line .The lower lines were used in older homes because the door knobs themselves were lower than we see today.
Hope that this may also help, Norm.

When fabricating tall panels do not exclude the use of THE GOLDEN MEAN. This being the 1.618 ratio of inter locking/ stacked panels on a large door or wall panel.
PERSPECTIVE< PERSPECTIVE< PERSPECTIVE

!EXAMPLE :
A full wall section should have a longer top panel than the bottom or wainscot panel to be pleasing to the eye.
One tried and true method to achieve this is to first layout the full wall profile, figure out the widths of the cross rails [ allowing that the base should be higher than the center rail by about an inch or more, and the head rail should be shorter than the previous rail by an inch or so depending on your design .

For what it’s worth Fine Woodworking did an article last year Nov/Dec #194 debunking the myth of glue starving a joint. The conclusion was that with common woodworking clamps, F-style, bar clamps, pipe clamps, etc. it is simply not possible to starve a joint. Period.
And my own two cents, biscuits don’t do jack for strengthening an edge joint (long grain to long grain) the wood will fail before the glue so their only use is in alignment and they don’t do that very well. Cauls do a far better job of keeping the boards in plane. Wax paper is a quick way to keep from gluing them to your work. Here’s a 24in. by 20ft. glue up of redwood being glued to a laminate backer. It has already been edge glued in a previous operation. This is a lamination process not a edge joining process but the principle with the cauls is the same except clamping force would also be applied across the assembly. The cauls are all tapered with the straight edge up as per the above post.

Woody – looks like you got a lot of good ideas going for you here – the only thing I would add is…on the dry fit, I clamp it up tight and then rub parafin wax where each joint comes together. Glue squeeze-out won’t stick, makes clean up a breeze!

-- The Gnarly Wood Shoppe