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Stanley planes on ebay.com : "Adios !!!"

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Forum topic by mikey78 posted 07-03-2017 11:39 AM 3095 views 0 times favorited 20 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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mikey78

27 posts in 535 days


07-03-2017 11:39 AM

Hello guys,
I’m from Italy and from time to time I like buying pre WWII Stanley planes on ebay.com .
In the past I never had a problem and,
I have to say that USA vintage tools sellers are very nice people to deal with,
you guys are great !!!
I have bought some very nice planes from USA but looks like now is the end of an era />In the last two auctions I participated I was the best bidder and so I was very excited because
I was about to receive some long sought after planes . . .
First was purchased 3 months ago the second one a few weeks later,
none of the two ever reached Italy !!!
Both hand planes were shipped through Ebay International shipping programm ,
which I do not regreat because it had already delivered me 6/7 very fine handplanes,
both where confiscated during the transit, such a shame !!!
I contacted sellers and they could only say that there was a problem with wood handles … That’s all !!!
I made some research and discovered that rosewood has been entered ( from 1st january 2017)
in the appendix II of the Cites (http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/rosewoods-bubinga-really-banned-cites/)
How can this happen ??? I’m in tears !!!
What do you think/know about this situation ?
Is there any chance to get those planes delivered to Italy anymore !!!


20 replies so far

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

4950 posts in 3988 days


#1 posted 07-03-2017 01:56 PM

What a load of crap! Somebody in customs now has a couple of good planes to play with.
I guess that means that a workman can’t travel across borders with his planes????
Mickey, I feel your pain.
Bill

-- bill@magraphics.us

View Tim's profile

Tim

3812 posts in 1989 days


#2 posted 07-03-2017 02:21 PM

I think I heard mention of wrinkles like this being worked out so that vintage tools don’t get confiscated, but with this kind of bureaucracy it could take a while to fix if ever.

View BurlyBob's profile

BurlyBob

5555 posts in 2293 days


#3 posted 07-03-2017 02:40 PM

That’s wrong in so many ways.

View TravisH's profile

TravisH

583 posts in 1963 days


#4 posted 07-03-2017 03:39 PM

I don’t think it is a ban just that restrictions apply for export and potentially import (forms filled out and I am sure money) for these designated species.

Man has this amazing ability to completely destroy something because they enjoy it so much. Leaves us in a precarious position of governing the wants or needs of people. Always an interesting subject as so many viewpoints, beliefs, and takes on the subject.

View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

1981 posts in 2666 days


#5 posted 07-03-2017 03:52 PM

Nobody is cutting down rosewood trees to make 100-year-old planes.

And if rosewood is $75 / board foot, it would seem that folks would be planting a lot of those trees anywhere they will grow (if the government is stable enough there to insure that somebody will not steal your trees before your grandchildren get to cut them.).

So, the fix is to ask the seller to remove the handles. You can make your own from local timber or buy totes and knobs made from more ordinary stuff. It will still be a nice old plane. Cost more, but half a loaf at double the price is better than none, right?

-Paul

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ColonelTravis

1804 posts in 1921 days


#6 posted 07-03-2017 04:49 PM

Coincidentally, I read about this problem very recently because I sold a few planes on eBay and one bidder was outside the U.S., where I am. He didn’t win, or else he might have had the same problem. It sounds like you’re out of luck, unfortunately.

it is no longer possible to send a common Stanley Bailey type 11 plane to any member state in the European Union or any other country that has signed the CITES (Convention of International Trade in Exotic Species) agreement. A friend recently had two Bailey planes confiscated by British and French customs officials after eBay sales to legitimate buyers and through the Global Shipping Program and without recourse or appeal. Though buyer and seller both were compensated by eBay, the antique planes were sent to customs hell, never to be heard from, seen or used again.

https://www.plane-dealer.com/single-post/2017/03/25/The-Brazilian-Rosewood-Dilemma

View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

1981 posts in 2666 days


#7 posted 07-03-2017 06:23 PM

Wow! The plane-dealer.com site is incredibly difficult to read. Very little contrast between text and background.

I found that I could highlight the text as if to do a “copy/paste” and it’s much more readable that way.


Coincidentally, I read about this problem very recently because I sold a few planes on eBay and one bidder was outside the U.S., where I am. He didn t win, or else he might have had the same problem. It sounds like you re out of luck, unfortunately.

it is no longer possible to send a common Stanley Bailey type 11 plane to any member state in the European Union or any other country that has signed the CITES (Convention of International Trade in Exotic Species) agreement. A friend recently had two Bailey planes confiscated by British and French customs officials after eBay sales to legitimate buyers and through the Global Shipping Program and without recourse or appeal. Though buyer and seller both were compensated by eBay, the antique planes were sent to customs hell, never to be heard from, seen or used again.

https://www.plane-dealer.com/single-post/2017/03/25/The-Brazilian-Rosewood-Dilemma

- ColonelTravis


View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

1981 posts in 2666 days


#8 posted 07-03-2017 06:25 PM

Because of your post, I went on ebay today and bought a couple of rosewood turning blanks. Not Brazilian, but close enough – just in case I need to make a plane knob.

View bobasaurus's profile

bobasaurus

3486 posts in 3212 days


#9 posted 07-03-2017 06:26 PM

The CITES rules are kind of insane when it comes to antiques like this. Anything obviously older than the ban should be exempt, or at least have a simple waver that can be filled out.

-- Allen, Colorado (Instagram @bobasaurus_woodworking)

View ColonelTravis's profile

ColonelTravis

1804 posts in 1921 days


#10 posted 07-03-2017 06:39 PM



Wow! The plane-dealer.com site is incredibly difficult to read. Very little contrast between text and background.

- Ocelot

Ha, no kidding.
Anyway, I agree that this all-out ban is utter nonsense.

View mitch_56's profile

mitch_56

20 posts in 501 days


#11 posted 07-03-2017 07:58 PM

Unless you’re just in it for the rosewood, just have the sellers remove the tote and knob, and then make or buy replacements yourself

If you need the original tote and knob for collecting purposes, you could have the seller ship the tote and knob separate from the plane, and declared as (e.g.) “dark-stained oak”—no customs clown is going to know the difference.

View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

1981 posts in 2666 days


#12 posted 07-03-2017 10:21 PM

I would stick to factual descriptions in shipping. Just say “old tool handles”. Maybe ship with some other old tool handles.


Unless you re just in it for the rosewood, just have the sellers remove the tote and knob, and then make or buy replacements yourself

If you need the original tote and knob for collecting purposes, you could have the seller ship the tote and knob separate from the plane, and declared as (e.g.) “dark-stained oak”—no customs clown is going to know the difference.

- mitch_56


View mikey78's profile

mikey78

27 posts in 535 days


#13 posted 07-04-2017 07:20 AM

This thing is killing me,
what’s the point of buying a vintage Stanley without handles,
tote and knob are an integral part of the value of a plane.
I have to resign myself to the idea that a big part of my collecting activity
has come suddenly and unfairly to an end.
But this thing is gonna hurt you guys more than me,
I think this is going to be a huge problem that kills someone
that lives trading vintage tools !!!

View JCamp's profile

JCamp

640 posts in 578 days


#14 posted 07-04-2017 10:49 AM

It’s not just handplane handles it’s guitars too. The government raided Gibson a few years ago An took all their rosewood An fined them. I talked to a guitar guy and I don’t know if he was making crap up but he said rosewood trees grow everywhere along the equator and that south America just put harsh laws against the harvest of the trees because land owners ground was more valuable as farm ground so that were cutting down hundreds of thousands of acres for farming An the governments didn’t want to loose all the vegetation Once again that’s what the guy said but seemed reasonable. I know in the guitar community ppl talk a lot about “Brazilian” rosewood I hav a rosewood guitar but can’t tell u the difference between mine and a “Brazilian” one

-- Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might

View BigYin's profile

BigYin

418 posts in 2444 days


#15 posted 07-04-2017 11:12 AM

Try sending a knife with “Ivory Micarta Handle scales”. (layered paper and plastic resin looks like ivory but dont crack, split, chip. the customs sticker said “knife”. Customs opened package and saw ivory … the lable said Ivory Micarta, customs siezed knife and sent threatening letter I suggested they google ivory micarta and then prosecute me for sending plastic handled knife. They returned the knife with out comment

-- ... Never Apologise For Being Right ...

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