LumberJocks

Sawstop bought by TTS Tooltechnic Systems

  • Advertise with us

« back to Power Tools, Hardware and Accessories forum

Forum topic by B4B posted 06-26-2017 08:06 PM 1540 views 0 times favorited 20 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View B4B's profile

B4B

154 posts in 1198 days


06-26-2017 08:06 PM

Just saw this in my news feed. TTS Tooltechnic Systems is the owner of Festool.

http://toolguyd.com/sawstop-to-be-acquired-by-festool-parent-company/

-- There's two routers in my vocab, one that moves data and one that removes wood, the latter being more relevant on this forum.


20 replies so far

View nkawtg's profile

nkawtg

263 posts in 1091 days


#1 posted 06-26-2017 08:13 PM

Ah, so the already overpriced table saw will get ridiculously expensive.
And maybe a new paint job.
Silver, green and black
Nice!

P.S. Maybe they can justify the cost increase with a nice systainer box.

View ArtMann's profile

ArtMann

691 posts in 656 days


#2 posted 06-26-2017 11:20 PM

I just checked and it appears Sawstop’s patent will expire in 2019. With so many high value, low cost competitors, I wonder how valuable the Sawstop name will be at that point. How can they compete when Bosch has a patent for a braking system that is cheaper than the Sawstop mechanism and doesn’t destroy the blade?

View jonah's profile

jonah

1473 posts in 3139 days


#3 posted 06-26-2017 11:31 PM

The first of Sawstop’s patents will expire in 2019. There’s a bunch of them that came in the years after 1999.

Bosch’s patents aren’t worth anything if the product based on them infringes on Sawstop’s patents. Which is what the ITC found when it examined the products and is why Sawstop got an injunction against Bosch.

Also, which high value, low cost competitors were you referring to? Sawstop has a pretty good (even stellar) reputation among woodworkers. Their saws are widely considered as good or better than everything else out there even disregarding the braking system.

View Rick_M's profile

Rick_M

10645 posts in 2220 days


#4 posted 06-27-2017 12:11 AM

That’s funny because I posted that as an April Fools joke a few years ago. (I know it’s real this time)

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View hotbyte's profile

hotbyte

989 posts in 2815 days


#5 posted 06-27-2017 01:03 AM

Can you post some lottery numbers as a joke? ;-)


That s funny because I posted that as an April Fools joke a few years ago. (I know it s real this time)

- Rick M


View Loren's profile

Loren

9639 posts in 3488 days


#6 posted 06-27-2017 01:04 AM

Tooltechnic owns a silly amount of technology.
They make robots and all sorts of components
for automated manufacturing.

They used to make industrial woodworking machines
under the brand Festo but I don’t think they
do that anymore.

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

989 posts in 431 days


#7 posted 06-27-2017 01:49 AM

It costs 10% more than for example Unisaw. Plus it is a better saw even without the safery feature. So how is it overpriced?


Ah, so the already overpriced table saw will get ridiculously expensive.
And maybe a new paint job.
Silver, green and black
Nice!

P.S. Maybe they can justify the cost increase with a nice systainer box.

- nkawtg


View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

6017 posts in 2039 days


#8 posted 06-27-2017 01:57 AM

It costs 10% more than for example Unisaw. Plus it is a better saw even without the safery feature. So how is it overpriced?
- Carloz

Base price for a 3hp ICS w/52” fence is ~$4,000.
3hp Unisaw with 52” Biesemeyer is ~$2,650 (Amazon) and can frequently be found for less, unlike the ICS.

A bit more than 10% (more like ~50%). Better even without the hot dog saving feature is debatable.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View ArtMann's profile

ArtMann

691 posts in 656 days


#9 posted 06-27-2017 01:59 AM

Further research leads me to believe that the patents that matter will expire in or around August 2021. That’s better than never.

Sawstop does not have a stellar reputation with this woodworker and the reason has nothing to do with quality. As it turns out, Mr. Gass spent over $100,000 in 2011 and 2012 lobbying the government to declare that all new table saws must have passive blade brake technology. Since his technology was the only one available, he was, in effect, lobbying for himself to either be the exclusive supplier of table saws or to have all other companies come to him to license his technology at whatever price he decided to charge. In effect, he was lobbying to take away my right to buy whatever saw I deem appropriate. For that reason, I will never own the brand and will cheer any company sells a competing product.


The first of Sawstop s patents will expire in 2019. There s a bunch of them that came in the years after 1999.

Bosch s patents aren t worth anything if the product based on them infringes on Sawstop s patents. Which is what the ITC found when it examined the products and is why Sawstop got an injunction against Bosch.

Also, which high value, low cost competitors were you referring to? Sawstop has a pretty good (even stellar) reputation among woodworkers. Their saws are widely considered as good or better than everything else out there even disregarding the braking system.

- jonah


View jonah's profile

jonah

1473 posts in 3139 days


#10 posted 06-27-2017 02:18 AM



It costs 10% more than for example Unisaw. Plus it is a better saw even without the safery feature. So how is it overpriced?
- Carloz

Base price for a 3hp ICS w/52” fence is ~$4,000.
3hp Unisaw with 52” Biesemeyer is ~$2,650 (Amazon) and can frequently be found for less, unlike the ICS.

A bit more than 10% (more like ~50%). Better even without the hot dog saving feature is debatable.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix


The competitive model to the Unisaw is the PCS, which goes for about $3000 with 52” rails. The ICS is bigger, heavier, and way, way better than any unisaw.

View Rick_M's profile

Rick_M

10645 posts in 2220 days


#11 posted 06-27-2017 02:35 AM



Can you post some lottery numbers as a joke? ;-)
- hotbyte

4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View papadan's profile

papadan

3584 posts in 3208 days


#12 posted 06-27-2017 02:48 AM

Ooo Ooo Ooo….....gonna win now!

Can you post some lottery numbers as a joke? ;-)
- hotbyte

4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42

- Rick M


View papadan's profile

papadan

3584 posts in 3208 days


#13 posted 06-27-2017 02:50 AM

Don’t get too excited about this buy out, B&D will buy them both next month!

View Rick_M's profile

Rick_M

10645 posts in 2220 days


#14 posted 06-27-2017 03:15 AM



Ooo Ooo Ooo….....gonna win now!
- papadan

You may win an all expense paid trip to a tropical island!

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

6017 posts in 2039 days


#15 posted 06-27-2017 03:19 AM

The competitive model to the Unisaw is the PCS, which goes for about $3000 with 52” rails. The ICS is bigger, heavier, and way, way better than any unisaw.
- jonah

Negative.

3hp PCS:
  • 449 pounds
  • 10-1/4” table in front of blade (@max height)
  • 27” x 44” table w/wings
  • Max dado 13/16”
  • 2 year warranty
3hp ICS:
  • 685 pounds
  • 10-3/4” table in front of blade (@max height)
  • 30” x 44” table w/wings
  • Max dado 13/16”
  • 2 year warranty
3hp Unisaw:
  • 661 pounds,
  • 13-1/2” table in front of blade (@max height)
  • 31” x 40” table w/wings
  • Max dado 1-1/8”
  • 5 year warranty

PCS is more than 200 pounds lighter, smaller, less capable, and the only thing comparable is price, yet still more expensive. Don’t forget to add in the costs for extra cartridges, the limited selection of blades that can be used, or the added features/capabilities you get with the Unisaw (or PM2000) that you don’t on the SS.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: An apples to apples comparison for the PCS would be the PM1000… same size table, roughly the same weight, but over $1000 cheaper and with a better warranty (5 years).

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

showing 1 through 15 of 20 replies

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com