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Waterbased Finish - Mixing Manufacturers

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Forum topic by Builder22 posted 06-22-2017 07:45 PM 471 views 0 times favorited 8 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Builder22

5 posts in 1363 days


06-22-2017 07:45 PM

Topic tags/keywords: water based finish water based lacquer target coatings general finishes wood finishing wood finishes cabinet finish maple

Sometimes we mix manufacturers when completing wood cabinet project finishes. A good example is a cut shellac seal coat before an oil or water based finish. Another is using a pore sealer not made from from the stain or finish manufacturer. As to topcoats, I have never been a proponent of mixing topcoat manufacturers. That said, I have some left over finishes i thought I might use up on a project, not enough of either one to complete the project by itself. I can just hear all the criticisms of the don’ts and like I said I am not a proponent. I am just reaching out to see how much experience others have had of applying coats of water based topcoats of different manufactures for the same project.

In my case, I was looking to apply a Target Coatings WB Lacquer (an acrylic) over a General Finishes WB Poly. Not looking for opinions, I am looking for anecdotal evidence and actual results from those who dared try this.

Thanks,


8 replies so far

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

2144 posts in 3708 days


#1 posted 06-22-2017 07:48 PM

I have not tried this, but if it were me i would put the acrylic on first, then do a scuff sand and thne the poly.. polys like a mechanical tooth to adhere, and can be tough for other finishes to adhere over them..just my opinion and experience

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Rich

1981 posts in 427 days


#2 posted 06-22-2017 08:25 PM

I guess my question would be, do you really have so much invested in those leftovers to make it worth it to take a chance? Just me, but I’d go ahead and buy an adequate quantity of your preferred topcoat and save those for smaller projects.

-- No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

View AandCstyle's profile

AandCstyle

2903 posts in 2094 days


#3 posted 06-22-2017 08:49 PM

Builder, call Jeff Weiss at Target. I have always found him to be very helpful.

-- Art

View Builder22's profile

Builder22

5 posts in 1363 days


#4 posted 06-22-2017 10:07 PM

As requested, I am looking for feedback from those that have experimented with different topcoats applied. Experimentation sometimes leads to incredible results, sometimes not. Need to hear from those that have experimented.

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Rich

1981 posts in 427 days


#5 posted 06-22-2017 10:20 PM



As requested, I am looking for feedback from those that have experimented with different topcoats applied. Experimentation sometimes leads to incredible results, sometimes not. Need to hear from those that have experimented.

- Builder22

OK, so you only want to hear from people who have applied Target Coatings WB Lacquer over a General Finishes WB Poly? Good luck with that, and I do apologize for breaking your rules.

-- No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

1425 posts in 1827 days


#6 posted 06-27-2017 12:09 AM

Not different mfrs, but different types from the same mfr, but not one on top of the other – don’t know if that meets your strict criteria or not , but…............

I’ve used Target EM6000 lacquer on the bottom part of a project, and Target EM8000 poly on the top, such as a table, dresser, nightstand etc. No chance for interaction of the different finishes. If you follow Art’s advice and call Jeff, he can give you all the specific technical reasons not to do what you are asking about. If you insist, use the lacquer on bottom, let it dry and set up at least a couple of weeks so that the poly on top doesn’t restrict it or react with it, sand it with ~220, then put the poly on top and hope for the best.


As requested, I am looking for feedback from those that have experimented with different topcoats applied. Experimentation sometimes leads to incredible results, sometimes not. Need to hear from those that have experimented.
- Builder22

And sometimes there’s just no reason to do the experiment.

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Builder22

5 posts in 1363 days


#7 posted 07-01-2017 01:53 PM

For those out there a bit daring and wishing to try something different, I gave it a whirl. The TC bonded very well to the GF poly, amazingly well on samples. TC advertises its coating can be applied over a wide range of substrates including plastic, so why not give it a try. The finish surface was a much higher quality than using only the TC product over the cut shellac. The GF coating (2 coats) really flattens and levels out much nicer than the TC, made a really nice prelim topcoat. The end result was a premium looking finish after the TC WB lacquer was sprayed (only 1 coat was required). The GF also goes on in thinner coats. The TC likes to go on heavier. It made for a thinner overall finish than using the TC alone.

The only reason I did not pursue this finish, although supposed to be a clear finish, the GF WB poly yellowed intensely on the initial panels I tried. The prelim sample did not yellow like the end panels. Unfortunately, I abandoned the process due to the color. There was something else going on there since the GF yellowed before applying the TC topcoat. Straight TC without the GF did not yellow on the same panels. Will follow up on that at a later date.

The fact remains, the combined finishes, outside of the color issue, was a very, very nice finish. I was using Satin on both. The GF tends to have a higher gloss on its satin than the TC. The GF WB poly coat gave it a much harder and more durable finish than spraying the TC alone. I would never have applied the WB poly over the WB lacquer (ie. WB acrylic) since the poly was much harder than the softer TC acrylic (an almost plastic type finish). Never apply a harder finish over a softer finish unless you want really big problems (a reason we cut shellac instead of applying straight for sealer coats). It was a great experiment that I will keep it in my back pocket and use this process in the future, since I really liked how the end finish looked and felt.

If anyone else, has tried anything daring, please share. Nothing ventured, nothing gained!

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Builder22

5 posts in 1363 days


#8 posted 07-01-2017 02:04 PM

BTW – the TC WB Lacquer takes about 3 weeks to harden properly. 2 weeks is too short of time. I have seen this time and time again. The GF WB poly takes a fraction of that time. And, there was a light scuff sand between coats completed in this experiment.

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