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Forum topic by Muddler posted 03-21-2007 10:02 AM 1264 views 0 times favorited 8 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Muddler

32 posts in 2787 days


03-21-2007 10:02 AM

Hi all,

Last year I built a small, 1/2 sized storage shed for my mother designed to hold her three garbage cans. I assembled the doors and lids using bead board for the panels and 2×3’s for the frames. I was under the gun and put the frames together with pocket screws. Needless to say, they didn’t make it through the winter – just a couple of windy, snowy days and two of the doors have come apart at the pocket screws. I was figuring to replace the doors with ones utilizing M&T joints this time. I understand that I will need to use a waterproof glue like Titebond II or III, or even Gorilla glue. I plan to use 2×4’s this time, and I was wondering if there are any considerations I need to know about the combination of soft woods, M&T joints, and the forces of nature (I do plan to seal them and paint them with an outdoor latex once assembled). Any suggestions short of “hire a contractor” are appreciated!

Muddler

-- ...straight lines or tight lines, either will make me happy! Muddler


8 replies so far

View Karson's profile

Karson

34886 posts in 3086 days


#1 posted 03-21-2007 01:56 PM

Don’t know if you can cypress there. It’s more of an outdoor wood. It has oils within the wood. I made a bench out of it and used Gorilla Glue and stainless screws to assemble it.

-- I've been blessed with a father who liked to tinker in wood, and a wife who lets me tinker in wood. Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

View Muddler's profile

Muddler

32 posts in 2787 days


#2 posted 03-21-2007 02:28 PM

it would be great to use cypress or rosewood, but the budget is too tight for much of anything other than pine – maybe cedar. Still, I’ve done well with sealing and painting in the past. Being new to “real” woodworking joints/techniques, I am more concerned with the construction rather than the type of wood. This will be my first time with M&T joints and I wanted to make sure there wasn’t any special considerations with the outdoor environment on an M&T joint – especially with a soft wood.

I’m blazing new ground for myself…

-- ...straight lines or tight lines, either will make me happy! Muddler

View BassBully's profile

BassBully

259 posts in 2783 days


#3 posted 03-21-2007 03:46 PM

Muddler,

I wouldn’t use Gorilla Glue for this application. Use TiteBond III for it’s waterproofness. Time and time again the poly glues have not held as tight as the yellow glues. My woodworking guild had a presenter that used to work for Wood Magazine, and he had performed tests on the different types of glues. When a yellow glue breaks, it takes wood with it meaning that it actually bonds to the wood fibers in the joints. The poly glues, like Gorilla glue, separated at less pressures and never took any wood with it.

Also, what pocket screws did you use? Kreg? You should also make sure you’re using the coarse screws instead of the thin threaded screws for pine.

You might also be safer using bolts with the glue if you can.

-- There are three types of people in the world, those who can count and those who can't!

View fred's profile

fred

256 posts in 2784 days


#4 posted 03-21-2007 08:28 PM

Try using half lap joints on the 2×4s. Use a waterproof glue like Titebond II or III and use galvanized or deck screws.

Use pressure treated wood if you can. Wear a mask when you cut pressure treated wood.

-- Fred Childs, Pasadena, CA - - - Law of the Workshop: Any tool, when dropped, will roll to the least accessible corner.

View Muddler's profile

Muddler

32 posts in 2787 days


#5 posted 03-22-2007 01:21 AM

I was considering half laps but was thinking this might be a good opportunity to try out M&Ts. Just curious, why half laps instead of M&Ts? The pressure treated stock is difficult to paint – which I need to do to match the rest of the shed.

I did use the coarse screws, incidentally. Just poor design on my part…

-- ...straight lines or tight lines, either will make me happy! Muddler

View gizmodyne's profile

gizmodyne

1763 posts in 2776 days


#6 posted 03-22-2007 03:33 AM

Hi,

You should check out the shop doors I made and their construction method that I got from a finehomebuilding article. http://lumberjocks.com/projects/797

The method involves creating a faux mortise and tenon joint and using pocket screws.

The doors are extremely sturdy.

-John

-- -John "Do I have to keep typing a smiley? Just assume it's a joke." www.flickr.com/photos/gizmodyne

View fred's profile

fred

256 posts in 2784 days


#7 posted 03-22-2007 07:47 PM

Half lap joints would be the quick way of rebuilding the outdoor shed. I usually reserve MT joinery for furniture.
Yes, pressure treated wood is difficult to paint, but a transparent stain looks pretty good.

-- Fred Childs, Pasadena, CA - - - Law of the Workshop: Any tool, when dropped, will roll to the least accessible corner.

View Bill's profile

Bill

2579 posts in 2847 days


#8 posted 03-24-2007 07:23 PM

You could probably use Redwood also, since that is a wood used for outdoor items like fences.

Let us know what you do, and post some pictures.

-- Bill, Turlock California, http://www.brookswoodworks.com

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