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Forum topic by AJ67 posted 05-19-2017 12:03 PM 576 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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AJ67

5 posts in 129 days


05-19-2017 12:03 PM

Topic tags/keywords: pavilion grill hut open shelter

Design help needed.
I’m going to build an open pavilion for my BBQ area. I have poured the slab with six J bolts in place for post. I will be connecting the 6×6 post to the concrete using simpson strong tie post bases. The shelter will be 12×16 with a gable roof 6/12 pitch, shingle top. I have looked and looked and looked for some plans similar to what I’m building. I just haven’t found anything exactly like I want. So, I’ve decided to just build it from scratch. I want to share my plans in the hopes that someone with experience can tell me where my possible pitfalls may be.

Here goes. I plan to use 6 6×6 post. I plan to notch out for a 2×6 at the top of the post and bolt them in. Should I use a double 2×6 or larger lumber? I plan to stick build the gable roof using 2×6 rafters and ceiling joist.

Does this sound like a good plan? What should I change?

I appreciate any ideas or advice you may have.


12 replies so far

View dhazelton's profile

dhazelton

2591 posts in 2052 days


#1 posted 05-19-2017 12:32 PM

If you were making something that had load-bearing needs I’d go bigger on the 12 ft side, at least a 2 X 10. But I think you could use a 2×8 as it’s essentially just connecting the corners. So to keep it looking consistent I’d just use 2×8’s all around the top of the posts. I built something similar, but smaller, and diagonal corner bracing will help keep it from racking as it is all open and unsheathed.

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AJ67

5 posts in 129 days


#2 posted 05-19-2017 01:46 PM

Thanks,
Next question using one 2×8 per side. Can I notch my post on two sides? So that each 2×8 sits on a lip.

or maybe use 6×6 post sitting directly on top of the vertical post attached with metal connections? If that would be better? I know it would be more expensive.

All the plans I find for open pavilion’s of this type tend to be timber frame style structures.

View JCamp's profile

JCamp

399 posts in 306 days


#3 posted 05-19-2017 02:38 PM

AJ – The way im understanding your question the tops of the posts will be notched on both side for the 2×8s to set… so that’s still a 6in “lip” That doesn’t seem like it’ll leave much material to support much of a overhang. Id have to draw it out to see it but seems like it would leave the overhang section of the rafter a bit thin….. but I could be wrong. Hopefully someone here has a way to draw it up or figure it out

-- Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might

View PaulHWood's profile

PaulHWood

387 posts in 2008 days


#4 posted 05-19-2017 02:45 PM

Where in the Country are you? It seems you have 6 posts so max span is 8 feet if I am reading this right.

Basically, you have a pin pin connection at your posts. This is not a great condition, you either want to fix the top (knee braces) or the bottom (too late as slab is poured).

Wind uplift is another consideration depending upon where you are. How thick is the slab at the J bolts?

-- -Paul, South Carolina Structural Engineer by trade, Crappy Woodworker by choice

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AJ67

5 posts in 129 days


#5 posted 05-19-2017 05:17 PM

The slab is 12×12 at the bolt locations. I’m near Macon, GA , center of the state. I was planning to use one continuous board attached to the three post. There is a plan I’ve found on here http://myoutdoorplans.com/pergola/12x14-outdoor-shelter-plans/
This is very similar to what I have in mind. In this plan they don’t notch the post and they use 4×4. I’m using 6×6 post and will notch. I would love for you to take a look the link and see what you think about this plan.

View dhazelton's profile

dhazelton

2591 posts in 2052 days


#6 posted 05-20-2017 11:19 AM

You can certainly notch the corner posts on each side – a 6×6 gives you a lot of meat and you aren’t cutting much away.

View AlGar's profile

AlGar

8 posts in 185 days


#7 posted 05-20-2017 11:43 AM

My suggestion is this: Draw up some simple plans (they don’t have to be fancy) and go to the building/planning/zoning department where you live. If you live in a rural area, you may have to to the county offices. Get a permit and they will look over your plans and offer suggestions on the structural integrity. For the cost of the permit you get all the engineering support you need and it will be done right.

Additionally, I learned many years ago that home improvements made without a permit, when one is required, may affect your insurance if something happens. Therefore, any costs associated with a permit are cheap compared to insurance being void in the event of a failure of your home improvement project.

-- Ohio Alan

View dhazelton's profile

dhazelton

2591 posts in 2052 days


#8 posted 05-21-2017 12:45 AM

The building inspector does NOT give advice or hand hold, at least where I live. Either you know what you’re doing or you hire an architect$$$$ or builder. He’s building an open shed. Those plans look just fine. He can do it.

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AJ67

5 posts in 129 days


#9 posted 05-21-2017 11:40 AM

In my area a building permit is not required for this structure. That was the first thing I checked. I guess I will find a local contractor and ask for advice or find a similar structure and study the construction. I just can’t find any many plans for a non timber frame open shelter.

View PaulHWood's profile

PaulHWood

387 posts in 2008 days


#10 posted 05-21-2017 03:14 PM

IBC would not require a permit for this structure. A local jurisdiction may.

the plans show the posts sunk into concrete 24” and likely is adequate for the middle of the country (ie non high wind region) seismically, it is fairly light. The plans do show knee braces, but only in one direction, not sure why as there is no rigid connection to the rafters.

I am in a coastal region and did a monoslope roof about 15×15 with 4- 6” posts. Matthew hit and I looked at my structure during the high winds and it was rock steady. They are in the ground 48” for wind uplift, which will also be your highest loading. You also have a small lateral load which is why you need rigidity either at the base or at the top to make the structure stable. With a continuous beam, you could get away with knee braces in every corner and leave out the middle, but you may want it for aesthetics.

Permit department will not help you design the structure and most of the time they do not have a licensed engineer on staff.

You may want to make your own trusses for the roof structure, it seems hard, but once you pattern out one, you can use it to build the rest, then roof framing can be done pretty much alone.

-- -Paul, South Carolina Structural Engineer by trade, Crappy Woodworker by choice

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AJ67

5 posts in 129 days


#11 posted 05-22-2017 01:38 AM

Thanks,

I do still have the option of planting the post in the ground. I will consider that for sure. When I poured my slab I placed the j bolts for post but I could easily cut those off and put the post in the ground. I will do some research on the uplift limits for the simpson post bases. We rarely have high winds here. That being said I’d like to make it structurally sound. I appreciate you taking the time to look at those plans and offer advice. If I decide to build the rafters as the plan shows I’d most likely build them as trusses on the ground.

thanks

View PaulHWood's profile

PaulHWood

387 posts in 2008 days


#12 posted 05-22-2017 07:42 PM

The simpson rating will not control, the amount of concrete to resist the uplift will control. ie the simpson base is likely rated higher than the weight of concrete it can engage.


Thanks,

I do still have the option of planting the post in the ground. I will consider that for sure. When I poured my slab I placed the j bolts for post but I could easily cut those off and put the post in the ground. I will do some research on the uplift limits for the simpson post bases. We rarely have high winds here. That being said I d like to make it structurally sound. I appreciate you taking the time to look at those plans and offer advice. If I decide to build the rafters as the plan shows I d most likely build them as trusses on the ground.

thanks

- AJ67


-- -Paul, South Carolina Structural Engineer by trade, Crappy Woodworker by choice

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