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Forum topic by newwoodbutcher posted 05-16-2017 10:51 PM 760 views 0 times favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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newwoodbutcher

710 posts in 2685 days


05-16-2017 10:51 PM

I have a Delta 50-760 1 1/2H.P ( I think it produces about 1500 CFM) with a Dust Deputy sitting on a 50 gal barrel in the single car stall next to my shop there are two 4” black sewer pipe runs (about 15 feet for each for my 10” Cabinet Saw, 8” Jointer two band saws(16” & 18”), a 19-38 drum sander and a 15” planner. See photos, It works “OK”.

I’ll probably upgrade the pipe size and the blower at some point in the future. On the other side of my shop ( a PITA to run another DC line) I have a power sanding station with two RO sanders and a chop saw each has its own Fein Turbo vacuum collecting dust, one old (10 years?) and one only a few years old. It worked well until one of the Fein’s (the old one on the chop saw) started screaming. After researching I decided not to repair or replace the Fein but to substitute both Shop vacs with a Dust Right blower’ a barrel, separator and cartridge filter. The Dust right advertises 650 CFM. A new replacement or repaired Fein would have 151 cfm (71 l/s) flow rate and 98.4” of water lift (245 mbar vacuum). Whatever all that means???!!!. The Fein turbo 1 sells for $265. The Dust Right costs $510 including the cartridge filter and separator. My thinking the 650 cfm was worth the $245 premium.

So I went down to Roclker to get the Dust Right set up and the guy talked me out of it. He said that because the tools I was attaching to had small dust ports the Dust Right wasn’t a good choice. He pointed me to a small Delta DC machine ($399) but said a shop vac was an even better choice. I don’t think I ever got bad advice from anyone at Rockler so I didn’t get anything.
I know some of you have command of the science here, can I get your advice??

-- Ken


17 replies so far

View papadan's profile

papadan

3584 posts in 3204 days


#1 posted 05-16-2017 10:59 PM

Run another 4” line overhead to the other side and drop a couple 2” lines to your machines. No since in having all the setup you have and then scrimping on part of it.

View BobAnderton's profile

BobAnderton

239 posts in 2626 days


#2 posted 05-16-2017 11:06 PM

Yeah, a dust collector has high CFM and low static pressure (like 6-11 inches of water). A shop vac has much lower CFM but much higher static pressure, like 25 inches of water. For a tool with small dust ports you want the higher static pressure, not so much the high CFM. If possible, maybe even have the shop vac hooked up to the tool ports and the high CFM collector pulling the air away from the general area to get what the dust port on the tool misses.

I think you’ve got a nice looking setup, by the way. I know setting that up is a lot of work.

-- Bob Anderton - Austin, TX - Nova 3000 lathe, Alaskan Mark III mill, Husqavarna Saw

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newwoodbutcher

710 posts in 2685 days


#3 posted 05-16-2017 11:11 PM

Running a new 4’ line is a good idea, though the problem is the new run would have to hang from the ceiling which is covered with “stuff that would have to be removed and relocated, Air hose reel, several light fixtures, power cord reals space heater etc. I could do it but I it would be a bit more of a project than I want. A lot more work than plugging in a shop vac. But your point is well taken, you might be right. I’ll look closer at what needs to move or reconsider the rout. It certainly would be a lot less expensive than buying new stuff.

-- Ken

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newwoodbutcher

710 posts in 2685 days


#4 posted 05-16-2017 11:24 PM

Thank you Bob. A shop vac would be a lot easier. Yes the shop takes a lot of work and it is a work of love. The problem is that my project list is certainly longer than my life so I’m prioritizing. Do you think the Turbo vac specs will work well in this situation?

-- Ken

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newwoodbutcher

710 posts in 2685 days


#5 posted 05-16-2017 11:56 PM

So with 1500 CFM from my DC, with a 25 foot run of 4” pipe, with minimal curves, Choked down to a Y with two 2” lines. Will I have enough suction for a ro sander and a chop saw used one at a time?

-- Ken

View Carl10's profile

Carl10

68 posts in 292 days


#6 posted 05-17-2017 12:19 AM

newwoodbutcher,

You might be better off performance wise to pick up a HF DC on Craig’s List for the ROS Chop station and add another pickup on the RO to split a 4” connection versus choke down to a small single port. The other thing to remember is the 1500CFM is just the blower rating and no restrictions (not a real life number).

Your Delta is the editors pick in this old review, but when connected to a separator and filter it can only produce 704 CFM (very good and typical for that DC). Add a seasoned and or dirty filter and the CFM will drop again significantly. You have added the SDD which will drop the flow again but helps keep the filter cleaner longer. You could significantly help your current setup by eliminating the short flex hose between the SDD and the DC. That 180 degree of sharp flex is definitely hurting flow.

http://www.portercable.com/uploads/PCD/Documents/News/182DustCollectors.pdf

You are probably on the right track to put something else on the other side of the garage with the ROS and Chopsaw.

Hope this helps and let us know what you end up doing,

Carl

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

2891 posts in 1824 days


#7 posted 05-17-2017 12:24 AM

The Delta 50-760 is a 1.5 hp with a small 11.5” impeller. You mention 1500 cfm but the specs are 1200 cfm with max static pressure of 8”. I doubt if you actually get much more than 750 cfm from the unit. You are also losing a lot with your plumbing going into the dust deputy with a 180 degree bend of flex hose.

Given the max static pressure of the dust collector, you could help yourself a lot by eliminating that 180 bend.

It would be good if you better understand the issues of piping and dust collection. In my opinion, adding the long run of 4” pipe and then reducing it down will result in high losses of static pressure and will end up with low cfm.

For less than $100, you could buy a Ridgid vac at HomeDepot that would work better than running pipe. You could add a dust deputy to it and have a reasonable setup for less than $200.

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

4697 posts in 1556 days


#8 posted 05-17-2017 12:43 AM

Given the losses in the current system before a long run I would recommend against running another line across the shop. The many restrictions coupled with the significant reduction in size would choke your cfm to near nothing. I think with a purpose built dust hood behind your miter box with at least a 5” line for the entire length, you could have good collection. For the ROS I would get another vacuum. I use a quiet series (??) 8 gallon Shop Vac for my 5” ROS and it works very well even when the cartridge is thoroughly caked as the vacuum pressure is initially so much higher than a DC.

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newwoodbutcher

710 posts in 2685 days


#9 posted 05-17-2017 01:08 AM

Great input. Thank you all. I checked and yes the CFM on this unit is 1200, not 1500, I misspoke.

So it would seem I have two actions, eliminate the 180 turn from the blower to the DD and buy a good and quiet shop vac for the sanding and chop saw.
The shop vac I know how to do. Eliminating the 180, well that’s a different story. This is my first attempt at a DC, prior to this my system was a broom. I have about 25” of space between the cartridge and the ceiling. Is it possible to remove the legs, raise the unit onto a platform hung on the wall, flip the intake port to the bottom of the elevated unit and make a more direct connection to the DD? If I turn it 180 and it all fits together that way, will it still work?

-- Ken

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Carl10

68 posts in 292 days


#10 posted 05-17-2017 01:33 AM

View WoodNDust's profile

WoodNDust

227 posts in 1941 days


#11 posted 05-17-2017 01:41 AM



- Carl10

This is on the right track. Do this!

View josephf's profile

josephf

171 posts in 1932 days


#12 posted 05-17-2017 01:52 AM

i have my miter saw hooked up to a cyclone with a ridged vac .the vac isn’t shop vac noisy .it isn’t that bad . i have been mostly just hitting the when i want to use the saw but you could get an auto switch . it works well enough . i do not use it for sanding though ,i have several festool vacs . i would sujest you get one small cyclone ,they are very helpful . the little dust deputy are ok , they do not handle large amounts so well .you can buy an aftermarket one real inexpensively .
i use a shop vac on the router tables also . just a thought .
i might add that milwaukee mitersaw though huge and loud hooked up to the 4” DC line .has as good or better collection as my festool .though i think it was better pickup .only mitersaw i know of set up for 4” hose .

View jonah's profile

jonah

1448 posts in 3134 days


#13 posted 05-17-2017 02:28 AM

You can’t use a dust collector with a random orbital sander. You want a shop vac for that, with its high static pressure. You will never, not ever, get any reasonable amount of dust collected from a DC through a 2” hose. Use a shop vac for the ROS and chop saw.

View Carl10's profile

Carl10

68 posts in 292 days


#14 posted 05-17-2017 02:45 AM

Apologies for suggesting a DC with your ROS, I was thinking of an oscillating sander and wondered why the port on that would be so small….now it makes sense.

Carl

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newwoodbutcher

710 posts in 2685 days


#15 posted 05-17-2017 04:24 AM

Carl, WOW! That’s the perfect set up. I’m sure I can make that work. Thank you

-- Ken

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