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Forum topic by Karda posted 05-12-2017 02:41 AM 881 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Karda

817 posts in 392 days


05-12-2017 02:41 AM

Hi, I broke down and got a jig, I couldn’t make one that would work. its a lot like the one Capt Eddies $2.00 dollar jig. I used a plat form on my belt sander the pivot is 4.25 from the belt and the tool protrudes 2”. My question is should I use the jig to make a grind regardless of what the edge profile is now. can I do the same for my spindle gouge which is much farther off than the bowl gouge pictured thanks Mike


15 replies so far

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

2187 posts in 1973 days


#1 posted 05-12-2017 10:38 AM

Really don’t understand what you are trying to do, but here are mostly bowl gouge angle used by some woodturners.

http://www.woodcentral.com/newforum/grinds.shtml

Looks like have a knock off an Ellsworth jig have no idea what the preset angle on that jig. Learning curve is finding that bevel angle for each gouge whether bowl or spindle gouge works for you. Some turners like short bevels and others like loner bevels on their tools. To further complicate things can have either finger nail or side grind on bowl or spindle gouge. Some turners only use one type and some turners use both for different turnings.

You might take a look at these planer belts for sharpening your turnint tools.
http://www.woodworkingshop.com/product/pl89253/

-- Bill

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Karda

817 posts in 392 days


#2 posted 05-12-2017 04:18 PM

so what I am hearing is that grind don’t matter as long as it works and it is consistent. My big worry is ruining the gouge by trying to get the right grind. The jig is preset at 45 degrees. thanks for the links they are helpful. I got new belts for metal from HF they are blue zirconia. Thanks Mike

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

5332 posts in 3501 days


#3 posted 05-12-2017 07:09 PM

I’m not sure I buy the idea that grind doesn’t matter.Some grinds (e.g. 40-degrees) are more aggressive that others (e.g. 60-degrees). A 40-degree grind on a spindle gouge that has swept back wings is a lot more aggressive than a 60-degree conventional grind on a bowl gouge.

From the picture you posted, it appears your rig (with a fixed pivot point) will only do one angle. If it were me, I would re-make the little platform on the belt sander so the pocket is adjustable. That way, you could set the pivot point to grind your gouges to whatever angle you wish.

I understand your frustrations … I went through the same thing when I started turning 7 years ago. I eventually was able to connect with more experienced turners and joined an AAW chapter … it was surprising how fast these little issues that had been driving me nuts went away when I had some hands-on time with guys that knew what they were doing.

Suggest this video … https://youtu.be/9mLgyePHMLk

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

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Karda

817 posts in 392 days


#4 posted 05-13-2017 03:35 AM

what I meant was , that the important thing was consistacy of what works, I noticed that certain angles are often mentioned mail 30 and 40. I know my jig is set for one angle because I don’t know how to set it for other angle. I don’t have the kind of math to figure the out. i would love to join a turners club but there are none near me, at least not that I can find. thanks Mike

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TheDane

5332 posts in 3501 days


#5 posted 05-13-2017 03:46 AM

Math? You don’t need math. Just re-make the little platform you have attached to your sander so the pocket can slide back and forth. That way, you can use your gouges and the leg of the jig to set the desired angle.

i would love to join a turners club but there are none near me, at least not that I can find.

Where are you?

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

6006 posts in 2037 days


#6 posted 05-13-2017 03:48 AM

I know my jig is set for one angle because I don’t know how to set it for other angle.
- Karda

Gerry already mentioned how to change the angle…

If it were me, I would re-make the little platform on the belt sander so the pocket is adjustable. That way, you could set the pivot point to grind your gouges to whatever angle you wish.
- TheDane

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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Karda

817 posts in 392 days


#7 posted 05-13-2017 04:00 AM

yes he did he told me to change the pivot points but that does not tell me what the angle is that is what I need to know. I live in Elmira Heights NY

View hairy's profile

hairy

2586 posts in 3370 days


#8 posted 05-13-2017 11:49 AM

View mrg's profile

mrg

786 posts in 2837 days


#9 posted 05-13-2017 12:07 PM

Look here to see what AAW chapter is near you. I’d offer to help you but your 2 plus hrs north of me.

http://www.woodturner.org/search/custom.asp?id=1509

Also call the AAW they may be able to put you in touch with a member close to you. I belong to the Hudson Valley Woodturners and we have 40 members. I’m sure their has to be a club near you.

-- mrg

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

5332 posts in 3501 days


#10 posted 05-13-2017 02:21 PM

There is an AAW chapter in Troy, PA less than 30 miles from Elmira Heights, NY

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

6006 posts in 2037 days


#11 posted 05-13-2017 02:50 PM

yes he did he told me to change the pivot points but that does not tell me what the angle is that is what I need to know. I live in Elmira Heights NY
- Karda

Not that it’s terribly important, but there are lots of ways to measure an angle – a protractor being about the simplest.

But it’s really simple. If you move your pivot point closer to, or farther away from the belt, you will change the angle where the tool meets the belt. Just move it while observing the angle at the tool tip. If you are trying to match the existing angle on a tool, just move it until it does, mark the point, drill a pivot, and you are done. There is no reason you can’t have multiple pivot points for different angles, or make the platform adjustable (in and out) to accomplish the same thing with just the single divot.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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Karda

817 posts in 392 days


#12 posted 05-13-2017 03:50 PM

thanks, I just came up with a bright idea cut the angle I want on a small dowel and put that in my jig toe set the angle. Thanks I’ll check in to the Troy AAW

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

2187 posts in 1973 days


#13 posted 05-13-2017 07:47 PM

The Ellsworth jig was designed to put a 60 to 65 degree angle side or fingernail grind on you bowl or spindle gouges. You might see little difference sharpening U shape gouge over V shape gouge but no big thing. Also meant to be used with Wolverine V-Arm or other clone and bench grinder. Instructions came with the jig.

Have no idea about the Ellsworth clones or homemade jigs. Many of those seen on line do not even address bevel angle degrees. Stand by just get a consistent bevel without a lot of facets for people starting out. Experience using your tools on different turnings should tell you when a change if any is needed.

Been using basic Wolverine system & Vari-Grind jig & grinder for years to accomplish the same thing. Best compromise bevel angles for my bowl gouges is 45 & 55 degree bevels on them whether fingernail or side ground. For spindle gouges range from 45 to 47 degrees.

Cannot even discuss 40 degree bevel being more aggressive than 60 degrees because it is and used on both spindle & bowl gouges. How about those folf using 30 degree bevels? Not saying you should but can buy a Mike Mahoney’s, “Wood Beater, or Bottom Feeder,” bowl gouges with a 40 degree double bevel. JMHO, 30 or 40 degree bevels too aggressive for me.

-- Bill

View John Stegall's profile

John Stegall

497 posts in 3354 days


#14 posted 05-13-2017 08:49 PM

May I suggest that you look around at some of this information? His book is well written and gives some good pointers but his website has a lot of things also. Doc also likes using belt grinders to sharpen with.

http://www.docgreenwoodturner.com/articles.html#Sharpening

And this one about measuring angles: http://www.bigtreetools.com/articles/2016/6/17/sharpening-woodturning-chiselspart-1

And part 2 shows an idea for a jig used with a belt grinder

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/575f5629b6aa606c10a208a1/t/57647b43e3df2833602e74dd/1466202955361/sharpening-chisels2.pdf

-- jstegall

View Karda's profile

Karda

817 posts in 392 days


#15 posted 05-14-2017 12:17 AM

I cut a dowel to 40 degrees and made a pivot from that, Now I am getting a good grind, the gouges cut better as well. Thanks for all you help and suggestion. I copied the links for further study thanks for your patience

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