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Forum topic by KelleyCrafts posted 05-05-2017 06:04 AM 1669 views 0 times favorited 41 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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KelleyCrafts

2680 posts in 573 days


05-05-2017 06:04 AM

Well, I plumbed the shop with 4” pvc, a super dust deputy, and my Jet 1100 all venting out two 4” vent dryers outside. I have what I think is a problem.

First, let me say the suction is great. Way better than previously using flex hose all over the shop and the horrible 30 micron bag my Jet came with. That’s the good news.

Second, the dust bin lid sucks down when it’s on and you can’t pull it off. I bought clamps for this but forgot to put them on and it’s working great anyway. The top is two pieces of plywood laminated flat with a bicycle tire around the edge of the lower piece to seal it. Seems to work great. I put two 20lb weights on to run another test earlier tonight.

Third, and likely the problem, there is a lot of dust outside. No big chunks but I think it’s more than there should be. I haven’t been running the D.C. on the table saw previously because it was a pain in the ass but now it’s easy so I opened the cabinet and started sweeping the massive amount of sawdust out of the bottom into the dust port and there was a lot of dust coming out of the dryer vents, venting outside the shop. All small fine stuff but very visible and a lot of it. Looked like I was grilling something (comparing to smoke from a grill). Maybe I’m throwing too much at it at once? My table saw would never produce the amount I was shoving through but my planer might. Maybe my expectations are just too high? Any input is appreciated unless it’s the kind where I have to tear down the whole system and do something completely different, if that’s the case just lie and say it’s normal.

-- http://kelleycrafts.com/ - pen blanks - knife scales - turning tools


41 replies so far

View Bob5103's profile

Bob5103

80 posts in 667 days


#1 posted 05-05-2017 09:26 AM

I vent outside with my SDD/HF combination, if I stick the hose into a large pile I get visible dust outside. Not a thick cloud, but visible. In everyday use I can’t see any dust. I don’t have neighbors, so I don’t worry about any escaping dust, I just let the wind handle it.

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HokieKen

4505 posts in 972 days


#2 posted 05-05-2017 11:48 AM

I don’t have a cyclone on my system but from a quick look at the website:

It only removes “up to” 99% of dust. 1% of a pile of dust like you threw at it would appear to be a lot when dispersed into open air outside. Beyond that, the “up to” probably means it removes 99% at optimal conditions. With less than ideal conditions, there’s a good chance it removes significantly less.

If you think it’s a concern, I’d plumb the vent to a bucket or box and run for a while. Then compare what’s making it through to what the cyclone is separating out. I’d do it during normal operation and then shovel it full like you did with your TS and see what happens. If it looks like significantly more than 1% is making it through, I’d get in touch with the SDD manufacturer and let them troubleshoot your system.

Good luck!

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

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Steve

57 posts in 292 days


#3 posted 05-05-2017 01:45 PM

I do get some dust as well, but usually its not enough to even be seen. Your planer makes mostly chips and very little dust so you should be fine. None of the cyclones get all of the very fine dust.

You should also MAKE SURE that you remove any screen in the dryer vents. I didn’t and the first time I let my bin get slightly too full it clogged the screens and really made a mess. I removed the screens and never had a problem again. I had started with a 20 Gallon container and with a planer that is just not big enough. I now have a 55 Gallon.

Did you mount the Jet blower right on top of the SDD?

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KelleyCrafts

2680 posts in 573 days


#4 posted 05-05-2017 02:53 PM

Thanks for the replies. The table saw does have a lot of fine dust and maybe I’m just throwing too much at it. I’ll experiment more this weekend to see how things go. I haven’t fired up the planer with it yet, just started cleaning up the tablesaw mess I’ve had building up.

Steve, I have a 20” planer so I did go with a 55 gallon plastic drum for this because I know I’ll have a problem with anything smaller and I do work with wide rough stock very often. I’ll remove the screens on the vents this weekend. It actually crossed my mind but I decided to try it first.

The Jet is a little ways up from the SDD. Maybe 12”. I wasn’t going to mount the SDD to the lid originally but decided to. I might change that later, we’ll see how bin empties go.

Excuse the mess. It’s a cramped shop for sure.

-- http://kelleycrafts.com/ - pen blanks - knife scales - turning tools

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Kelly

1821 posts in 2778 days


#5 posted 05-05-2017 03:07 PM

If you’re shoveling a lot out of the base of the saw into the collection port, that “may” not be a lot. Or it may.

When I got done putting mine together, I used some incense to smoke test around the top. Initially, one or two points drew smoke in. I resealed those, tested again and was good to go.

Forums talk about the effect of air leaks at seal between the SDD and the can. Generally, it’s said leaks there will cause debris to be drawn over to the filter. In your situation, the vent. It may be your leaks are small, so only light stuff is being grabbed.

If you got a big leak and still had the grill in, or if the can was full, even chips would flow on through to the filter or exterior vent and any grill would clog quickly.

Do you have a view port in your can. I installed one, but it needs to extend up more (live and learn). I’ll replace it soon, since my huge score one Plexi, Lexon and other plastics.

View Steve's profile

Steve

57 posts in 292 days


#6 posted 05-05-2017 03:21 PM

I put a view port in my lid so that I can use whatever color bag I want as a liner. Its only about a 3” hole covered with acrylic but that’s plenty to see the level. I just cut the hole and used silicone to glue the cover over it.

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KelleyCrafts

2680 posts in 573 days


#7 posted 05-05-2017 03:40 PM

I plan to add a view port to the lid. The drum was used to hold printer ink in its previous life so it’s stained on the inside.

Kelly, I’ll try the smoke test. I did expect to see some come out of the vent but something inside me says it’s just too much. I’ll goof off with it this weekend. Hopefully I find something easy so I can get back to real work.

On a side note, it’s still tons better than what I had before. I’m in no way saying this wasn’t a worth while project, I just expected more than what I received at the moment.

-- http://kelleycrafts.com/ - pen blanks - knife scales - turning tools

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JBrow

1272 posts in 754 days


#8 posted 05-05-2017 04:07 PM

ki7hy,

I have a couple of thoughts. The first is that the cyclone may not be providing maximum separation due to turbulence being introduced at the cyclone inlet (where the cyclone attaches to the main line to the tools). Ideally the air should be a smooth turbulence-free flow into the cyclone.

It looks as if the flex hose connecting the cyclone to the main trunk make two 180 degree turns. In addition, the ridges on the inside of the flex hose can also introduce additional turbulence. I recall an answer to a recent post on Clear Vue’s forum where the original post asked about minimum the length of straight pipe at the cyclone inlet. Clear Vue’s forum administrator recommended 5’ of straight pipe to minimize turbulence as air enters the cyclone.

http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/forum/forum/clearvue-cyclones/piping-and-dust-pickups/12775-straight-pipe-run-at-inlet

While you may not have the space to get a full 5’ of straight pipe entering the cyclone, perhaps the cyclone could be raised and the main pipe pulled out from the wall so that the main line feeds straight into the cyclone.

Even if the cyclone is separating 99% of the debris, a lot of fine dust will be blown out the dryer vents. One idea to capture some of the fine dust would be to elbow and extend the outdoor exhaust pipes downward. Drywall buckets filled with water at the end of the downpipes may capture some of the escaping fine dust exhausted into the bucket. I would however ensure the water level in the drywall bucket would never submerge the end of the downpipes.

View Steve's profile

Steve

57 posts in 292 days


#9 posted 05-05-2017 04:16 PM



ki7hy,

I have a couple of thoughts. The first is that the cyclone may not be providing maximum separation due to turbulence being introduced at the cyclone inlet (where the cyclone attaches to the main line to the tools). Ideally the air should be a smooth turbulence-free flow into the cyclone.

It looks as if the flex hose connecting the cyclone to the main trunk make two 180 degree turns. In addition, the ridges on the inside of the flex hose can also introduce additional turbulence. I recall an answer to a recent post on Clear Vue’s forum where the original post asked about minimum the length of straight pipe at the cyclone inlet. Clear Vue’s forum administrator recommended 5’ of straight pipe to minimize turbulence as air enters the cyclone.

- JBrow

That’s a really good point, That 180 degree bend definitely can’t be helping things. At the very least removing it would have to increase your flow. Certainly the faster and smoother the flow going into the cyclone helps it do a better job.

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KelleyCrafts

2680 posts in 573 days


#10 posted 05-05-2017 04:34 PM

Very good point jbrow I actually planned to eliminate that in the beginning and things just didn’t turn out exactly as planned but all I need to do is raise the bucket a little and I can pipe straight into the SDD. With the SDD attached to the lid I would still need to use some flex hose but in a straight line so the SDD could lift some during emptying. The other option is to mount the SDD to the wall and bring a hose to the bucket for emptying. I would probably prefer this as it would allow a solid line to the SDD and make for an easier bin empty. I just don’t know what fits on the bottom of the SDD. I guess I could make something and then put a 6” ring there like I have on the top of the SDD.

You guys have great suggestions. Thank you!

-- http://kelleycrafts.com/ - pen blanks - knife scales - turning tools

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KelleyCrafts

2680 posts in 573 days


#11 posted 05-05-2017 05:47 PM

Ok, screw it. The points are too valid. I’ll take the SDD off the lid tonight and hard pipe it to the pvc on the wall then bring a hose to the lid top. That should ensure the cleanest run possible in my application.

Question: the hose coming out of the bottom of the SDD and into the lid (once I move them) does it need to be exactly below the SDD or can it move out a little from the wall? I’m not talking about a curved hose but it won’t by exactly perpendicular to things. Would be more like a 45 degree bend. OR, if I made a new lid then I could move the receiving end of the hose to the back part of the lid instead of the center but I don’t know if that matters either. Any suggestions?

-- http://kelleycrafts.com/ - pen blanks - knife scales - turning tools

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KelleyCrafts

2680 posts in 573 days


#12 posted 05-05-2017 05:50 PM

Thinking it through I would have to order an extra 6” hose adapter to get this to work so I might have wait until that comes in. Bummer, I kind of want to just have this working right now so I can check it off the list. I can still use it right now though.

-- http://kelleycrafts.com/ - pen blanks - knife scales - turning tools

View Steve's profile

Steve

57 posts in 292 days


#13 posted 05-05-2017 06:44 PM

I used a short piece of 6” PVC. I cut a hole in a short piece of 2×8 and glued it in. I used this on the top and bottom.

As you can see, an offset doesn’t hurt anything.

This last pic is just because it was sitting there when I went out to take the pictures just now!

View JBrow's profile

JBrow

1272 posts in 754 days


#14 posted 05-05-2017 07:00 PM

ki7hy,

I am not sure whether or how much it matters to have the end of the cyclone funnel centered on the lid. Likewise I am not sure how much it matters that the hose from the end of the cyclone funnel bends to attach to the drum lid.

My inclination would be to have a connection from the cyclone funnel to the drum as straight as possible and centered on the lid. If this is not possible, I would think keeping the connecting flex hose straight and in line with the cyclone would be more important than centering the hose on the drum lid. It seems to me that introducing a curve in the flex hose could disrupt and/or slow the cyclonic air flow and allow some dust to enter the low pressure center zone.

On my cyclone where I have a view port in the top of the dust bin, I can see the cyclonic air flow continuing into the dust drum. When I was considering a rectangular dust bin, Clear Vue advised against it; I presume due to the continuing in-the-dust-bin cyclonic air flow. If the dust were exhausted offset from the center of the lid, I wonder whether air flow in the drum might reduce the effectiveness of separation. But I do not know.

If it is not possible to make the transition from the cyclone funnel straight while at the same time centering the flex hose in the dust bin lid, I would probably elect to make the flex hose straight out of the funnel and offset the flex hose in the dust bin lid.

Since some work has gone into the existing dust bin lid, I see no reason that would prevent cutting a new offset hole in the lid and plugging the unused center hole. I piece of flashing screwed to the inside of the lid and well-sealed with silicone would probably be enough to seal the unused centered hole while keeping the lid fairly smooth and flat on the dust bin side of the lid. If a sheet of polycarbonate (which I think builds less of an electric charge that Plexiglas) instead of flashing is used to plug the unused center hole, the unused center hole could become a view port.

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KelleyCrafts

2680 posts in 573 days


#15 posted 05-05-2017 07:03 PM

Cutting board looks fantastic Steve.

So you’re saying the SDR-35 (thinner HomeDepot) 6” stuff will work to get a 6” flex hose around? If so I can swing by and get a 2’ piece on my way home from work. It’s like $8 or something. Orare you using the Schedule 40 stuff?

I do know the SDR-35 stuff is still too big for the 4” flex hose to slide onto. Any tips on this would be good. What a pain, can’t wait until this one is done. Not an exciting project in the least.

-- http://kelleycrafts.com/ - pen blanks - knife scales - turning tools

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