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HF DC - Super Dust Deputy or Thein Baffle

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Forum topic by AlmostRetired posted 04-20-2017 03:05 AM 1907 views 0 times favorited 27 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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AlmostRetired

37 posts in 547 days


04-20-2017 03:05 AM

This has been asked before but i was hoping for an updated set of responses.

If $$$ was no concern would you add a Super Dust Deputy or Thein Baffle before the impeller onthe HF 2HP DC system…and why?

Thanks,
Roger


27 replies so far

View greenacres2's profile

greenacres2

308 posts in 2001 days


#1 posted 04-20-2017 11:13 AM

I built a Thein baffle (scrap plywood) and put it on a 30 gallon steel drum I paid $5 for. The “why” was so I didn’t have to reattach the chip bag when I emptied it. Have only had to empty twice in 4 years, once because my barrel got full (and I wasn’t paying attention) and the second time was because I ripped the plastic bag with a rake (don’t ask).

Side benefit—the baffle works well enough that I mounted the HF collector about 7 feet off the floor so I gained a little space. Next move will be to place the DC outside for a little quiet. Compressor will be housed in the same enclosure.

earl

View Bob5103's profile

Bob5103

80 posts in 667 days


#2 posted 04-20-2017 01:07 PM

Years ago I made a Thein baffle, and it worked OK. In my current shop I am able to exhaust outside, and I switched to a SDD. It is simpler, separates better, and takes up a lot less space.

View brtech's profile

brtech

1005 posts in 2756 days


#3 posted 04-20-2017 01:43 PM

Remember that the HF is underpowered: it can’t generate enough suction to clear the fines. All separators improve separation at the cost of insertion loss (less suction). So you are taking an already not great situation and making it worse for your health.

What you get is less work to empty the chips and less cleaning of the filter. If you wear a respirator all the time, then that might be a good tradeoff. If you don’t, I think it isn’t.

View Carl10's profile

Carl10

68 posts in 290 days


#4 posted 04-20-2017 06:24 PM

Without a doubt the SDD. It has better separation and less pressure loss. This guy ran the air tests https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaTrY-O7l5E

Carl

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KelleyCrafts

2680 posts in 572 days


#5 posted 04-21-2017 07:11 AM

It’s funny this came up. I just made this decision myself based on a lot of research. I’ll be venting outside and I have a Jet 1100 so my impeller is a bit bigger but I am going to swing by Woodcraft this weekend and grab the super dust deputy and then vent outside. I usually have the garage up or partially up depending on the weather and use a respirator for the fines anyway because my sinuses can’t take it so I’m mainly looking for cleanliness in my shop. I have good air flow through the garage with a swamp cooler in the summer anyway.

-- http://kelleycrafts.com/ - pen blanks - knife scales - turning tools

View JayCee123's profile

JayCee123

196 posts in 598 days


#6 posted 04-21-2017 11:17 PM

+1 for the Super Dust Deputy (SDD)
About a year ago I broke down an old 3/4hp Delta 2 stage dust collector. The 35 gallon dust collector drum had a deflector inside which imparted a “spin” to the airflow in an attempt to separate out the larger particles, the air flow then continued out of the drum into a cloth filter bag. It was similar to a large Thein arrangement, although it didn’t have a separating baffle. The DC was dedicated to my drum sander, stationary belt sander, bandsaw and portable planer; all pretty good dust and chip producers. The DC did a “almost fair” job collecting chips, but did not perform very well at collecting fine sanding dust. After doing some homework I decided to try the Oneida SDD. I disassembled the dust collector; cut down the collection drum, re-used the motor/impeller housing, and added a HEPA filter. It’s remains dedicated to those same machines, and I’m very happy with the performance of this new arrangement. The SDD definitely separates out the chips and larger particles; the smaller dust is captured by the filter. There is very little carry over into the canister filter, while the SDD separates out 99.9% of the larger particles which fall into the collection drum. I “feel” that the airflow has increased considerably, unfortunately I did not take any flow measurements prior to breaking down the old collector. The dust collection at the tools, and the overall filtration is absolutely better. The shop in general and especially immediate to the filter cartridge are almost completely dust free.
I’m so please with the outcome, that like ki7hy, I’m going to bust up my Jet 1100 DC (with canister filter) and fit it out with another SDD and also a HEPA filter. The Jet DC is assigned to the table saw, table router and lathe and does a pretty good job now but I would still like to improve upon its small particle capture.

View Carl10's profile

Carl10

68 posts in 290 days


#7 posted 04-21-2017 11:50 PM

JayCee,

When you get the Jet hooked up to the SDD you might want to try it on the other equipment (sanders etc) before you dedicate it to the saws/router. You will probably get much better separation with the larger blower. The sanders are the most difficult for any cyclone and would benefit from a 2x more powerful blower, I have talked with people using 3 and 5HP Oneida’s and they still have filter clogging using drum sanders.

The minimum air flow for the SDD is 350CFM which you could very well be below when the filter starts to clog. I had a Jet 1100 and only measured ~950CFM with no pipe or filter. Once I added a cleaned bag filter and some 4” pipe and I was in the 600-700 CFM range.

If you do test the jet on your sander setup let us know how it performs. Many people have 1.5HP DCs like the Jet and would like some real world data. Like, I sanded 20 gallons of dust and after cleaning my filter I ended up with XX cups of bypass dust. This objective information would be really helpful vs the subjective – it was much better, lots more suction…etc

Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

Carl

View JayCee123's profile

JayCee123

196 posts in 598 days


#8 posted 04-22-2017 02:18 AM

Hi Carl10-
Due to the arrangement of my shop, I’v needed to cluster the bandsaw, two sanders, and drag over my planer (once in awhile) to the corner which Ive allocated for the present SDD. So its basically going to stay tied to that equipment. My biggest fine dust producer is the drum sander. Next in line is the belt sander. The band saw produces larger particles and the planer is mostly chips and curls. I do have a differential pressure gage for the filter, and I keep a close eye on debris build-up. I’ve “needed” to clean the filter a few times but most of the debris is ending up in the drum. Cleaning the filter is a snap, I attach my HEPA shop vac to the bottom nozzle of the filter cartridge (normally covered with a rubber plumbing cap/hose clamp), and use shop air blown over the outside of the filter as the vacuum is operating. I also clean the filter after each extended run of the drum sander, just to be all set for the next time I use the sander.
I will test the Jet before I break it down and after I incorporate the SDD, and I’ll be happy to post the results. I’ll also try to quantify those collection numbers you cited :)

View Carl10's profile

Carl10

68 posts in 290 days


#9 posted 04-22-2017 02:29 AM

Great! Look forward to the results.

Carl

View AlmostRetired's profile

AlmostRetired

37 posts in 547 days


#10 posted 04-25-2017 12:23 PM

Thanks for all the recommendations and the help. I think I am going to have to but the SDD and Wynn filter for my next setup.

Roger

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

954 posts in 425 days


#11 posted 04-25-2017 01:51 PM



Remember that the HF is underpowered: it can t generate enough suction to clear the fines. All separators improve separation at the cost of insertion loss (less suction). So you are taking an already not great situation and making it worse for your health.

What you get is less work to empty the chips and less cleaning of the filter. If you wear a respirator all the time, then that might be a good tradeoff. If you don t, I think it isn t.

- brtech


There are so much wrongs in this post I even do not try to count,
OP money is not an issue as the addons are mostly very cheap. However it increase the size of the setup and for DYI person who is the usual user of the mentioned dust collector it is often an issue.

View Chuck Anstrom's profile

Chuck Anstrom

84 posts in 2858 days


#12 posted 04-25-2017 02:23 PM

I have a HF Dust Collector. Originally, I built a Thein Baffle and used it within a 30 gal trash can. I also have a canister filter.

About two years ago I bought a Super Dust Deputy and replaced the Thein Baffle. Rather than use the metal circular container sold by Oneida, I built a box with a door and interior drawer. The SDD was then caulked and screwed to the top of the box. The box volume is approximately 25 gallons.

After, two years of use, I’m very happy with the arrangement. For my set-up, it’s easier to dump the drawer’s contents into a large trash bag than the 30 gal trash can. My non-scientific observation is I capture more dust using the SDD than the Thein.

So little dust/shavings make it to the plastic bag under the canister, I am considering making another box arrangement (like 8” deep and 16-20” with a door and interior drawer like that presently under my SDD) and replacing the plastic bag.

Buy the SDD.

-- Chuck Anstrom - Virginia

View brtech's profile

brtech

1005 posts in 2756 days


#13 posted 04-25-2017 02:23 PM


There are so much wrongs in this post I even do not try to count,
OP money is not an issue as the addons are mostly very cheap. However it increase the size of the setup and for DYI person who is the usual user of the mentioned dust collector it is often an issue.

- Carloz


Care to specify what is wrong?

The HF is underpowered? It takes around 700 CFM to clear fines You are lucky to get 350 – 400 with the HF at the tool. The motor, and the impeller, is too small.

All separators have insertion loss? They do, some more significant than others. TNSTAFL.

The only thing a separator does is make less work to empty chips and less cleaning of the filter? True. Separators can’t improve air quality, can’t improve suction – they decrease it. The only thing they do is catch some (not all) of the material before it gets to the HF’s own ramp separator and filter.

You need a respirator if you use an HF (with or without a separator)? There is a way to actually measure the air quality; try it.

All forms of separation, including a well designed cyclone, decrease airspeed. Their only job is to prevent as much material as possible from entering the filter. That’s what they do. That’s all they do. Everything else is how badly it decreases suction, how much material it removes, and how easy it is to empty wherever it puts the material it separates.

I refer you to Bill Pentz for all the details.

Upgrading the filter from the bag to a pleated cannister, like the Wynn filter actually improves suction as well as improves air quality. It’s a win win. That’s the most important upgrade you can do to an HF DC.

In my shop, I have the HF with the Wynn filter. I don’t have a separator, and I wear a respirator when I’m creating dust.

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

1422 posts in 1823 days


#14 posted 04-26-2017 12:49 AM

Regarding the youtube video & measurements – I have the HF dc with Wynn filter and a Thein separator on a ~30 gal can. I measured flow with the same typ of meter, but got much different results. I had the same ~850 cfm (indicating similar flow readings with the meter) at the impeller inlet, but had the same ~650 cfm at the thein inlet that he had at the sdd inlet. At the end of a 10ft flex hose I had ~450 cfm. Not sure why he had so much less with the thein, cant see the details of his design, but based on the comparison a thein design will flow just as much as an sdd. May not do as well with superfine dust but the flow is there. Since adding a wok in the center of the dc “separator”, where the bags clamp, The fines stay in the plastic bag and dont clog the filter. The central updraft used to drag them up into the filter.

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

2887 posts in 1822 days


#15 posted 04-26-2017 01:11 AM

Measuring airflow with a hand held anemometer is not very accurate. You can get almost any result you want.

Testing done with the proper equipment by Wood Magazine showed the HF got 650 cfm at 2.5” static pressure. Breech is correct with his comments. With the small impeller and motor, you only get so much.

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