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Forum topic by ChicksWithTools posted 04-05-2017 10:15 PM 595 views 0 times favorited 13 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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ChicksWithTools

40 posts in 456 days


04-05-2017 10:15 PM

I am reviewing different proposals from structural/water proofing companies about a interior trench/sump pumps system and would like to discuss the different product applications as the trenching systems use different products. As this is not the right board for that, does anyone have any suggestions as to which board would be appropriate for that discussion?

Thank You

-- Courageous convictions will drag the dream into existence. - Rush, Vital Signs


13 replies so far

View pontic's profile

pontic

505 posts in 448 days


#1 posted 04-05-2017 10:54 PM

No idea of which board you could go to. But maybe if you give some more information some of the people on this site who are engineers or the ones who have had training and experience in material science and polymer chemistry may be able to answer your questions or shed some light on them.

-- Illigitimii non carburundum sum

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ChicksWithTools

40 posts in 456 days


#2 posted 04-05-2017 11:26 PM

OK..

Problem: I have boarderline radon AND water coming into the crawl space. Humidity is also an issue. The soil type here is about solid rock (mostly limestone) with about 6” of dirt.

Proposed Radon Mitigation Solution: As my current readings are borderline, I’m hoping the crawlspace encapsulation system will take care of that but there are 2 things that have to go under the encapsulation system: 1) radon mitigation piping and stub out for a exhaust fan if needed later and 2) the trench and piping system. It’s the branded piping systems that vary from proposal to proposal.

Water Problem with Trench and Sump Pump System Solution:

Sump pumps and basins are all the same in each proposal but the piping systems are:

1) EZ flow piping http://aspent.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/ezflow-brochure.pdf
2) perforated plastic pipe with a fabric sock exterior. No product info provided by company proposing this product application but this rep say the foam packing peas escape the sock on the competitive proposal and they float up and away from the pipe
3)Safe Drains System which is about $5K more than other proposal https://www.safebasementsinc.com

All companies will provide lifetime guarantee that water will not go past their trenching /sump pump system. None of them will do an old style french drain with gravel They use the above products for ease of installation.

Based upon the different piping products, I leaning towards the EZ flow conceptually.

None of the companies will do exterior french drains as they all saw it is not a 100% solution to ground water infiltration and all advise attempting to do so is not cost effective either. (I am having a landscape company run french drains from the gutter downspouts away from the house but that’s only a helper to the problem, not a solution)

Humidity problem: Well hell….. if I’m already spending money on that big of a project… another $1K for a dehumidifier is no big deal and this IS the south. While the labor is there, I’d like to have the condensate drain run into the sump pump piping as condensate pumps on dehumidifiers are known to fail.

Of coarse, I’ll have the entire system monitored and sit on my SmartThings hub…. but that application is another board :)

-- Courageous convictions will drag the dream into existence. - Rush, Vital Signs

View JayCee123's profile

JayCee123

196 posts in 604 days


#3 posted 04-05-2017 11:58 PM

After I had shot my e-mail to you I saw your follow-up post … from the descriptions of your proposal reviews you’ve certainly gained much knowledge regarding radon and ground water mitigation :)
The web site information I sent is still valid. Good luck to you.

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ChicksWithTools

40 posts in 456 days


#4 posted 04-06-2017 12:08 AM

Those are great website referrals thank you.

What type of PE are you? Just curious. It’s always great to have a contact list :)

-- Courageous convictions will drag the dream into existence. - Rush, Vital Signs

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mrg

786 posts in 2839 days


#5 posted 04-06-2017 03:35 AM

I just did the water proofing trench work on my home 2 weeks ago. The website you link to safebasement I wouldn’t suggest using that product. That will only channel water at the wall do to the fact they break the concrete and put this on the foundation that protrudes from under the wall that the concrete floor sits on. It only captures the water from the weep holes at the base of the cinder block wall.

What I had done was a trench around the whole perimeter with 4 inch corrugated pipe, stone, weep holes drilled and black plastic board with channels to drain into the trench. As they dug the trench it filled up with water. Concrete on top of this with the pipes pitched to a sump pump in the corner. Basement is bone dry now with the thaw and rain we had. I also can monitor the system via cell phone or computer. You will be surprised how much water you will pump in a day

Radon basically needs to be vented.

-- mrg

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ChicksWithTools

40 posts in 456 days


#6 posted 04-06-2017 03:33 PM

Thanks MRG. Was your trench interior or exterior?

Yes, I read on the safe basement system how they break the concrete and asked the question to the contractor for more detail on product application on how they intend to install it for my application which is a dirt crawlspace.. I have not received an answer… For my entire project… the total tab for all systems combined is floating around the $9K figure from all contractors except the ones with the safe basement system. Their price is $15K… I can’t find the $6K added value with that product. As I said the only difference between all the bids was the product application of the trenching system and slight variations on the mill of plastic used for the encapsulation system.

-- Courageous convictions will drag the dream into existence. - Rush, Vital Signs

View mrg's profile

mrg

786 posts in 2839 days


#7 posted 04-06-2017 04:39 PM

My trench was interior. I paid $9100 for mine to be done, 142 linear feet.

All my quotes were in the same ball park. The higher price you got quoted may be the battery pump? I just looked over my quotes and 2 companies were charging an extra 1500 for battery backup. The guy that quoted me the same system as the safe basement had a few different options which would drive the price up.

-- mrg

View JayCee123's profile

JayCee123

196 posts in 604 days


#8 posted 04-06-2017 04:58 PM

Battery backup is a serious consideration. You’ll most need the pump during those times of serious down pour which tend to coincide with main power loss.

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ChicksWithTools

40 posts in 456 days


#9 posted 04-06-2017 06:22 PM

I was just thinking…. none of my proposals are clear in if they include power loss back up. I need to nail down if that is included in the scope before signing a contract. If it’s not included, that’s something I could add later on myself… . I may come back to you on sizing the UPS and installation guidelines.

-- Courageous convictions will drag the dream into existence. - Rush, Vital Signs

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JayCee123

196 posts in 604 days


#10 posted 04-06-2017 10:17 PM

If you intend on looking at battery backup as a future add on, consider the following;

Can the pump/motor combo be easily powered by a back up power supply ?
Usually the primary pump/motor requires 115v ac. A backup power supply can be pulled together but at much more cost then incorporating it as part of your original installation.
Usually backup pumping is provided by a second (smaller) sump pump/motor which is powered from a 12v dc power supply. This backup power supply is comprised of a storage battery, battery charger, small control/indicating panel. The secondary sump pump usually sits within the same sump as the primary pump, and has its own discharge check valve and is tied into the common discharge header downstream of the primary pump discharge check valve. The secondary sump pump will have its own level switch located above the primary pump water level switch, such that, during a loss of main power condition the sump water level may exceeded the primary pump water level switch, when the secondary level switch is reached it would trigger the start of the secondary sump pump.
If you still feel the need to look at back up pumping capabilities later, at a minimum, review the sump offering to be sure its large enough so that you can easily position a second pump in the sump.
Another reason for a battery back up is that it will by you some time before you need to get your home generator up and running and your loads assigned, your primary sump pump motor being one of them.

View RobS888's profile

RobS888

2316 posts in 1685 days


#11 posted 04-07-2017 12:43 PM


If you intend on looking at battery backup as a future add on, consider the following;

Can the pump/motor combo be easily powered by a back up power supply ?
Usually the primary pump/motor requires 115v ac. A backup power supply can be pulled together but at much more cost then incorporating it as part of your original installation.
Usually backup pumping is provided by a second (smaller) sump pump/motor which is powered from a 12v dc power supply. This backup power supply is comprised of a storage battery, battery charger, small control/indicating panel. The secondary sump pump usually sits within the same sump as the primary pump, and has its own discharge check valve and is tied into the common discharge header downstream of the primary pump discharge check valve. The secondary sump pump will have its own level switch located above the primary pump water level switch, such that, during a loss of main power condition the sump water level may exceeded the primary pump water level switch, when the secondary level switch is reached it would trigger the start of the secondary sump pump.
If you still feel the need to look at back up pumping capabilities later, at a minimum, review the sump offering to be sure its large enough so that you can easily position a second pump in the sump.
Another reason for a battery back up is that it will by you some time before you need to get your home generator up and running and your loads assigned, your primary sump pump motor being one of them.

- JayCee123


Great info.

We got a zoeller pump with battery backup. https://www.amazon.com/Zoeller-507-0008-Pre-assembled-Battery-Backup/dp/B002N6VHXI/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1491567886&sr=8-6&keywords=Zoeller+pump+with+backup
The battery is around $300, but worth it.

We have it sitting in a 55 gallon barrel buried at the bottom of the driveway. It can empty the barrel in a few seconds.

We got a little water in the garage during a rainstorm last year. I thought I had over purchased until that day. About the storm: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2016/08/01/this-is-how-an-off-the-charts-flood-ravaged-ellicott-city/?utm_term=.8f585127a519

-- I always suspected many gun nuts were afraid of something, just never thought popcorn was on the list.

View pontic's profile

pontic

505 posts in 448 days


#12 posted 04-07-2017 02:20 PM

We have two sumps in our house.
Inquired about battery backup pump systems. Found that placement of a Generac was a cheaper option for me as a backup source of power for the pumps and house.

-- Illigitimii non carburundum sum

View JayCee123's profile

JayCee123

196 posts in 604 days


#13 posted 04-07-2017 02:39 PM

I agree with you, that in certain circumstances it can be financially advantageous to provide a backup generator. That approach can certainly resolve many issues, including sump pump power. However, if were talking portable generators, many homeowners have a problem getting their butts outdoors to start up and connect up their generator. They tend to wait till the storm passes, and if power is still out, and it’s safer and more comfortable for them to spin up their generator, then they’ll start her up. In the mean time that sump level may be moving up :)
But again I certainly support the ownership of a reliable generator, preferably a standby generator if funds allow, or a portable generator.
Good luck and hope you never have to use either.

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