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Forum topic by Kasm posted 10-18-2010 04:49 PM 1465 views 1 time favorited 22 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Kasm

7 posts in 2241 days


10-18-2010 04:49 PM

How many layers of 1/8” thick oak can be cold bend laminated into a 15” radius curve in one gluing? I am planning on laminating 12 layers to get to 1.5”. Should I do this all in one go? Or should I glue and clamp a few layers and wait for it to dry before adding more until I get to all 12 layers?


22 replies so far

View Gene Howe's profile

Gene Howe

8235 posts in 2888 days


#1 posted 10-18-2010 06:34 PM

With the right slow setting adhesive, it can be done at one time. Got plenty of clamps? One for every 4-5 inches?

-- Gene 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

4163 posts in 3201 days


#2 posted 10-18-2010 06:51 PM

Get the slowset and do it all at once. For making your radius, you will “ALWAYS” get glue on the outside of your pieces, that will require clean-up to go to the next round of layers.

-- 'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' ~George Carlin

View Nomad62's profile

Nomad62

726 posts in 2417 days


#3 posted 10-18-2010 07:52 PM

I agree with both above; do it all at once, and don’t get stingy with the clamps. I have a friend that does bending for a living and he has at least 300 clamps (the big, blocky wood type) that he freely uses. Lots of glue, paper under it all to catch the mess and lots of clamps starting from the center and moving outward.

-- Power tools put us ahead of the monkeys

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Kasm

7 posts in 2241 days


#4 posted 10-18-2010 07:59 PM

Thank you guys, any recommendation on glue? I was thinking titebond, but that says 10 minute open assembly time, and 25 minutes total assembly time. I read that as needing to have the boards in place in 10 minutes, which might be cutting it close. Unless I am misunderstanding the 25 minutes total assembly time thing.

View PCTNWV's profile

PCTNWV

99 posts in 2263 days


#5 posted 10-18-2010 08:52 PM

I have done 8-10 lamintations to acheive a similar thickness. The key as most have stated, a slow set and a longer open time (I used Titebond III). I built an MDF jig with plenty of areas for clamp holds (one ever 3-5 inches, the closer the better). It works best to have everything ready to go, I covered the form in wax paper, clamps pre-positioned, a good roller to spead the glue, laminations a little oversized (to allow for triming as nothing stays perfect) and the laminations layed out and ready. Once you start you really cant stop, I did not worry about run out as i trimed that off later. Glue them all on one side, stack them all up, place them in the form and begin clamping from the center out. Once it has dried trim it to width and length and you are good to go… i have done this on 3 differnent pieces w/ great success.
Hope this helps.

-- Troy, Virginia

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

17654 posts in 3135 days


#6 posted 10-19-2010 06:31 AM

troy How long were you at it? Seems like a lot for 2 minutes!!

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View John Ormsby's profile

John Ormsby

1283 posts in 3196 days


#7 posted 10-19-2010 04:44 PM

I would only recommend using a Urea glue or West Systems epoxy. PVA glues do not work well for laminating. They will not hold the curved shape. Too much spring back. Urea and and Epoxy glues are the industry standards for good reason. They work.

-- Oldworld, Fair Oaks, Ca

View PCTNWV's profile

PCTNWV

99 posts in 2263 days


#8 posted 10-19-2010 05:09 PM

TopamaxSurvivor – once I started applying the glue it took about 20 mins total (10 mins to glue and stack and about 10 to get it all clamped)... based on the specs for the glue (Open assembly time10 minutes (70°F./50%RH) Total assembly time20-25minutes (70°F./50%RH)) it has held up well.

John – I would agree those are better options – especially if it is unsupported, i should have also stated that I did fasten mine to a piece of lumber with corresponding radius of curve as i did encounter some spring back in what I glued up….

-- Troy, Virginia

View Moron's profile

Moron

5032 posts in 3352 days


#9 posted 10-19-2010 05:28 PM

one glue up, but I would do a “dry” run b4 gluing

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View John Ormsby's profile

John Ormsby

1283 posts in 3196 days


#10 posted 10-19-2010 05:28 PM

The long term stresses put on the other pieces will eventually cause problems. It is very important for the wood to be stable whether it be straight or curved.

-- Oldworld, Fair Oaks, Ca

View PCTNWV's profile

PCTNWV

99 posts in 2263 days


#11 posted 10-19-2010 05:44 PM

John, Thanks for the info…. learned something new again today…. that is one of the reasons I joined this site… much appreciated.

-- Troy, Virginia

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

4163 posts in 3201 days


#12 posted 10-19-2010 07:04 PM

When we did this with Michael Fortune, we only put glue on one side of the lamination.
You lay all of your stips side by side (tightly) I use a little blue tape at the ends then pour the glue into a puddle and use a 1/16th metal notched mastic spreader to get everything covered within about 30 seconds.

You have more working time with the clamping part of the lay-up. This is because once you have put the sandwich together, you have dramatically slowed the amount of oxygen hitting the glue surface….like worrying about your glue drying out in the bottle.
This doesn’t mean you have hours, but IS where you get the 25 minute working time.

-- 'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' ~George Carlin

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

17654 posts in 3135 days


#13 posted 10-20-2010 05:14 AM

Thanks Troy and Dave. So much to learn and so little time!!

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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TopamaxSurvivor

17654 posts in 3135 days


#14 posted 10-20-2010 05:37 AM

John Does white glue slip and slide too much? What is a common urea glue?

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View John Ormsby's profile

John Ormsby

1283 posts in 3196 days


#15 posted 10-20-2010 06:00 AM

An example of Urea glue would be Unibond 800 : http://www.vacupress.com/veneerglue.htm

I think Joe Woodworker sells another type of Urea glue. These are resin glues. There are a few manufacturers of Urea glues.

White glue is a PVA glue and not very suitable for bent lamination. Some people use yellow PVA glue when working with certain techniques of veneering but it not a glue for laminating wood. It is a flexible glue. It also will expand and contract when used for normal edge gluing of boards. You will notice when, for example, a table top that is made of a few boards edge glued will have a slight ridge at the joints after some time. This is the glue flexing and slightly squeezing out of the joint.

-- Oldworld, Fair Oaks, Ca

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