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What is orangepeel?

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Forum topic by depictureboy posted 10-14-2010 01:42 AM 1829 views 0 times favorited 13 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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depictureboy

420 posts in 2386 days


10-14-2010 01:42 AM

Well I have started into the wonderful world of HVLP…I am spraying shellac on my wall units.

anyway…i get a nice coat and it looks good under the lights at an angle..but once its dry it feels kind of rough to the touch…I havent tried sanding it yet, though I know that will knock it down..I just want to make sure I am not doing something wrong…

Link to LJ blog entry with pics

.you cant see the roughness, but you may be able to give me pointers anyway

THE LINK IS FIXED….hehe

-- If you can't build it, code it. If you can't code it, build it. But always ALWAYS take a picture.


13 replies so far

View Dark_Lightning's profile

Dark_Lightning

1818 posts in 1852 days


#1 posted 10-14-2010 02:33 AM

I use methanol to dilute shellac when I brush or spray (preferred). You can also try running a high thinner to shellac ratio like Barry mentioned. Further, as with lacquer, I use a high (up to 100%) thinner ratio to reflow the surface, and can get some nice smoothness while cleaning the gun. Don’t know for sure if this works on HVLP, but it sure works on painting a car with lacquer using a standard spray gun…or even an airbrush.

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Jonnyfurniture

59 posts in 1571 days


#2 posted 10-14-2010 03:02 AM

Spraying wall units is not easy. Like the pilot said orange peal looks like a shiny bumpy surface from an improperly atomized spray. Like bunches of globs that melted together. If you are doing box interiors then it is most likely dry over spray. You will find it in greater concentrations in the corners and settling on the bottom. It can be a tricky balance when you play with the viscosity and retarders. If you try those set the fluid control to put out enough material to cover the spray pattern in one pass and resist going over any areas twice because it will want to run and drape. You will also benefit from moving the gun quickly to get the insides sprayed before to much over spray builds up. This is the other reason for turning up the fluid knob. So there is enough flow to allow quick spaying. Spray the bottom of any cabinet box last to melt down any accumulation. Spray your face frames first and then the interiors. This will keep the insides from getting rough also. when you have the insides sprayed depress the trigger so only air comes out and use the fan to sweep out any residual fog inside the cabinet before the coat drys any more.

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depictureboy

420 posts in 2386 days


#3 posted 10-14-2010 02:03 PM

looking at it this morning i think its actually maybe a little bit of the overspray, but also the fact that I am using really open pored oak…when i get a chance later ill post a pic for you guys to look at…

does it matter whether this was waxed or dewaxed shellac? is one heavier than the other? I was surprised how thin it seemed….

I am using zinsser’s dewaxed sanding sealer….

-- If you can't build it, code it. If you can't code it, build it. But always ALWAYS take a picture.

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GaryL

1080 posts in 1574 days


#4 posted 10-14-2010 02:21 PM

If you’re spraying a large area, such as your wall unit, you need a gun that can put out a lot of material fairly quickly. Most inexspensive guns are not capable of this. At least not with a good even atomized pattern. You also have to move fairly quick as your spraying, so any overspray can melt into a still wet surface. This comes with practice.
Like others have said, adding a slower solvent will help tremendously at getting the surface to laydown.
Sand and tack between coats. Usually I’ll spray first and second coat of sealer then sand, especially with a porous wood.

-- Gary; Marysville, MI...Involve your children in your projects as much as possible, the return is priceless.

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knotscott

5600 posts in 2119 days


#5 posted 10-14-2010 02:26 PM

I was getting a lot orange peel effect with the Rustoleum spray on special lacquer on my son’s guitar project. It can be rubbed out, but I did find I got much less of it with the Deft lacquer, so there are obviously variables that effect it.

Here’s an illustration:

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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depictureboy

420 posts in 2386 days


#6 posted 10-14-2010 02:51 PM

These are 2 of the shelf parts. It may just be the wood…and like you said the overspray thing…i sanded it with 300g wet dry and it knocked it down…Maybe I am not sure that I like the lustre…bleh…

-- If you can't build it, code it. If you can't code it, build it. But always ALWAYS take a picture.

View Tom Coster's profile

Tom Coster

120 posts in 1582 days


#7 posted 10-14-2010 03:42 PM

I work in the auto body field. Don’t have much experience with wood finish thru HVLP. But with auto finish orange peel can be caused by temp changes or using the wrong reducer for the ambient temp. The finish is actually drying unevenly which causes it to draw up and wrinkle. Reducers control drying speed. Reducers must be matched to temp. Slow reducer for warm weather. Fast for cold. If you have a big temp drop during dry time the orange peel will look like pickup truck bed liner. Hope this translates to wood finishes!
Something to keep in mind if you are thinking about buying an HVLP gun: EPA is instituting new regs one of which is spray guns will have to be certified. Not all HVLP equipment is certified. Best to buy a certified gun now so that your purchase is not outlawed in a few years. I have employees who own $500+ guns that they can no longer use. The EPA website has guns listed that are certified. In many areas the person doing the actual spraying (commercially) will have to be certified starting Jan. 1, ’11. Also air filter systems must have 97% particulate containment. These regs are being instituted across the country over the next few years. South Carolina is doing this year. A lot of the NE has already done it. My PP&G rep says soon he will not be able to sell spray able products to anyone without certification, commercial or hobbyist.

-- Tom, MI, SC

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a1Jim

112805 posts in 2321 days


#8 posted 10-14-2010 03:53 PM

It does matter ,you want to use dewaxed shellac. If you have already used waxed shellac you can seal it with dewaxed shellac. You can get rid of over spray by spray by just spraying the surface with a wet coat of denatured alcohol over the top and letting it dry.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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depictureboy

420 posts in 2386 days


#9 posted 10-14-2010 04:09 PM

thanks A1Jim…thats what i was using the dewaxed…so thats good…

ill remember about the quickspray while I am cleaning my gun trick too…Maybe I am just seeing the texture of the wood then I wish I could get a better picture showing what I am seeing…Maybe I just need to work on knocking the shine down and Ill be happy…

Can I leave it with just shellac coating, or should I put a topcoat of WB Poly on top?

-- If you can't build it, code it. If you can't code it, build it. But always ALWAYS take a picture.

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8476 posts in 2392 days


#10 posted 10-14-2010 04:37 PM

the wood looks good, I don’t see any orange peel that is caused by the spray process – but it’s oak, and it doesn’t look like you sealed the pores – I think that’s what you’re seeing. then again – it’s a bit hard to see from these pictures. a close up on the surface might show something different.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

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a1Jim

112805 posts in 2321 days


#11 posted 10-14-2010 04:52 PM

Shellac is a great finish that is easily repaired but is not that protective compared to a poly. you can use a water base or oil base because shellac will let all finishes adheres to it. I would sand the shellac very lighty with 220-300 grit of course sanding with the grain,wipe clean and then apply the new finish.

.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5600 posts in 2119 days


#12 posted 10-14-2010 05:40 PM

Maybe you’d prefer a satin or semi-gloss finish. It’s a matter of preference, but I tend to like satin with no grain filler on oak and other porous woods.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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depictureboy

420 posts in 2386 days


#13 posted 10-14-2010 09:39 PM

yep purplev I didnt seal the pores…the wood has lots of character which i really like I guess with this being my first spray I dont know what to expect…

knotscott…i will definately do a satin if I decide to do a wb overtop of it…

A1Jim i remember seeing a finish comparison in one of my mags…maybe it was Wood…This is going in a bedroom so I dont think I will have to worry too much about super protection…and with it being repairable, thats a plus.

thanks everyone!

-- If you can't build it, code it. If you can't code it, build it. But always ALWAYS take a picture.

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