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Craftsman 152.221140 TS Modification Help

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Forum topic by ColeH posted 03-15-2017 04:13 AM 1247 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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ColeH

5 posts in 274 days


03-15-2017 04:13 AM

Topic tags/keywords: craftsman table saw mods modification fence router router table question tablesaw

I recently started woodworking and have really enjoyed the new hobby. I purchased a used Craftsman Table Saw 152.221140 and everything on it is stock. I am finding myself very confused between competing brands and it appears many saws look similar to mine with different branding.

The heart of my question is that i would like to add a router table and possibly an inverted jigsaw to my table saw to save on space and give me a bigger table top surface for cutting plywood. According to the manual, and images I find online, the front fences rails are designed to be centered on the blade. This means I get 24” rip capacity on both sides of the blade. I cannot figure out why I would ever want rip capacity that large on both sides of the blade. I’d rather move the rails to the right and increase my rip capacity similar to what I see people doing with Delta Saws. Is there a reason why my saw is designed so my fence rails stick out so much on both sides of the saw table or can I drill my own holes and move it flush on the left side and stick out much farther on the right side? Thanks in advance!


12 replies so far

View ChefHDAN's profile

ChefHDAN

992 posts in 2685 days


#1 posted 03-15-2017 10:55 AM

Cole, welcome to LJ’s the short answer is yes you can do this pretty easily. Most rails are attached to the saw with bolts that have their heads in a “key way” slotted the length of the rail, think T-track. You should be able to loosen your rail bolts and slide them to the right without drilling any holes. You’ll need to purchase new peel and stick tape for your rail and you’ll have to do some re calibrating but that’s all part of setting up your saw. As for your wing addition for a router and JS drop in, it’s a simple table top build with an inch to 2 inch hardwood skirt that you can bolt the top to the side of the saw and between your rails. You’ll fit it to the spaces and use the same wing install instructions for the saw to level and true the wing. Where you need to be careful is the amount of weight you’ll be suspending to the right of the saw at the end of the rails. There are some mobile bases that permit you to add support at the end of the wing and some folks build bracing back to the saw brace to support the cantilevered load. For my setup, (here) I don’t keep my router stored in the wing and have a simple brace built that is held in place by the weight of the saw when I’m using it to prevent any sag or damage to the rails which still lets me keep the saw very mobile and not sacrifice any storage when everything is put away. If you search router wing here you’ll find lots of ideas and methods. If you don’t have it already. Kelly Mehler's book on the Table Saw is also a great resource for tuning and calibrating your TS as well as giving lots of great use advice. Good Luck.

-- I've decided 1 mistake is really 2 opportunities to learn.. learn how to fix it... and learn how to not repeat it

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ColeH

5 posts in 274 days


#2 posted 03-15-2017 02:13 PM

Thank you for the reply ChefHDAN. I appreciate you taking the time to give me a little extra detail vs just saying yes and moving on. I checked my saw this morning and you are correct, my rails are slotted and 4 bolts attach. It looks like a simple project to increase my space on the right. I have no concerns with putting down a new adhesive tape. The saw I purchased was setup poorly and the blade doesn’t align with the miter slot, the blade doesn’t align with the fence, the tables themselves don’t even align. I have work to do. I really wish I could find a solution to add a true riving knife to my setup. The previous owner broke and threw away the blade guard and splitter. My splitter holder does not go up and down with the blade and that really disappoints me. I have used saws with a riving knife and really like the feature. I found aftermarket solutions but they are all splitter solutions. I can take a piece of steel and cut one out myself for a fraction of that cost. Unfortunately, it is only a fraction of the solution I am looking for as well

Now for the table….

My impression from you is to be concerned with the weight. You comment to bolt to the side of the saw. If I bolt to the cast iron extension wing, the front rail, and the back rail….I have three sturdy contact sides. The far right will be unsupported, no way around it unless I do one or a combination of your solutions. The three contact sides are not enough support? I guess some of that answer depends on the weight of my router/holder and the bracing I add to the underside of the router table.

In your design, do you remove the router table when you store or do you just remove the little leg support you built that goes to the floor and let the table hang? You did mention you take the router off, so I am thinking your table is attached and meant to stay

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7785 posts in 3211 days


#3 posted 03-15-2017 02:44 PM

ChefHDAN already did an admirable job outlining how to slide the rails.

Re: an aftermarket riving knife, the BORK from Bob Ross at Walnutacre Woodworking should fit your saw. He’s basically just one of us amateur woodworkers who frequents these forums who happened to figure out a way to retrofit a riving knife on pre-riving knife era saws. I’ve had one on my Shop Fox W1677 since 2008, and like it a lot. His most recent mods have improved over time as well.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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ChefHDAN

992 posts in 2685 days


#4 posted 03-16-2017 02:45 PM

Cole, you’re welcome and again welcome to LJ’s you’ll be amazed and surprised at what can be learned here!

For your set up challenges, I have to recommend the Woodpecker Saw Guage I picked one up on a good sale and wished I had done it sooner, it helps to go straight to tuning and no fussing with magnetic bases etc. it’s quick and easy to check the blade and the fence.

For the splitter, blade guard, I will confess, mine sits on the highest shelf in the shop with 1 to 2 inches of dust upon it. I bought the Micro Jig mini splitter kit to install into my insert plate, but alas that too sits on the bench waiting these past years for me to install. I am a RIDICULOUS safety proponent and have many employees that hate seeing me walk into the building as they reach for their PPE, but I do feel pretty strongly about working smart and using safe techniques and processes to minimize the potential for accidents. If I get to a point where I can afford to upgrade I’ll be looking for a riving knife, but right now i place a higher priority on being smart than relying on a feature for safety.

The wing I added stays in place on the saw, I have a big 3hp Porter Cable that is my primary router for use. That router and the handheld base for my smaller 690 are attached to a Rousseau router plate, either router can be dropped in. When I’m moving the saw around, and the wing does not have the brace in place I have the router on a shelf and therefore don’t have a great deal of suspended weight at the end of the rails. When I’m not using the router the plate with just the 690 base is in place. You can get plates from some manufacturers that will also mount a jigsaw and you could consider that for your plans. Ultimately, the solution lies within how often you’ll be able to use your tools. In the colder weather I like to keep my car in the garage which means all tools need to be put away, and If i want to set up I need to plan an hour or so to get all of the tools placed, and the space in and around the saws when it’s stored is totally packed. If I had a bracing set up or the extension mobile base I’d loose some of that storage and the two seconds it takes to wedge the brace leg into place is not inconvenient.

Last thought, look at the costs for your jigsaw idea, and keep an eye on CL for bandsaws. As you get into this hobby, you’ll find that the benefits of having a bandsaw are invaluable and it will cut much better than a jigsaw. I think you could get a decednt BS for $150 to $200.

Good Luck, be sure to put up some projects once you get going.

-- I've decided 1 mistake is really 2 opportunities to learn.. learn how to fix it... and learn how to not repeat it

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ColeH

5 posts in 274 days


#5 posted 03-17-2017 01:36 AM

Thank you knotscott for the suggestion. It looks like a pretty reasonable solution. I did see some feedback from users that at some saw heights the Bork ends up higher than the blade, but I don’t see that as a deal breaker. Most of my cuts will be through cuts and it is a fair tradeoff

Thank you chefHDAN for your help again! The saw gauge looks like a tool right up my alley! I work with CNCs at work and it suites my need to be picky. I have actually found this hobby to be challenging because I am used to CNC tolerances. I need to learn to let go a bit. 1 to 2 inches of dust…..you should consider a good garage cleaning :)

You bring up great points about safety. The biggest reason I want a riving knife is to pin my board against the fence to help my cut quality. The second reason is working with pine has proven to me that kerfs closing is a real concern for me. Since I am new and inexperienced my eyes are constantly on my fingers to make sure I keep all 10. During that time I had a kerf close and took a board off my shoulder.

Thanks for the information on the table. I share the same opinion. 2 stall garage and my wife is already disappointed with the space I am taking up. She won’t feel so bad when I build her the black walnut end table I promised. I chainsaw milled a tree and the lumber won’t dry fast enough…..very excited

A bandsaw would be awesome. Once I more efficiently design my shop and my tablesaw to create space, it tops my list. The jigsaw is the cheap solution for now. I very much dislike how it “picks up” my work when I feed too fast.

Thanks for the welcome! I hope to learn and contribute in the near future

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jimintx

509 posts in 1420 days


#6 posted 03-17-2017 02:04 AM



The biggest reason I want a riving knife is to pin my board against the fence to help my cut quality.
- ColeH

I wasn’t aware that pressing the material against the fence was part of the riving knife quest.

-- Jim, Houston, TX

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7785 posts in 3211 days


#7 posted 03-17-2017 09:40 AM

You can set the blade height of the BORK wherever you want it in relation to the blade…..it’s like a 6 second task. With the guard attached, it’s obviously set above the blade.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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ColeH

5 posts in 274 days


#8 posted 03-17-2017 10:17 PM

The biggest reason I want a riving knife is to pin my board against the fence to help my cut quality.
- ColeH
I wasn’t aware that pressing the material against the fence was part of the riving knife quest.

—Jim, Houston, TX
Quote

What are you saying exactly? Are you denying that a riving knife presses material against a fence and assists the user with a straighter and higher quality cut?

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jimintx

509 posts in 1420 days


#9 posted 03-17-2017 11:01 PM

No Cole, I’m not saying that, nor am I denying anything; and I am a little surprised at the uncalled for defensive tone of that post from you.

I think of a riving knife as a device that keeps the kerf open so that it doesn’t bind on the spinning blade. I believe that is its intended purpose.

You can maintain the stock against the fence with a properly designed push stick, and never have a riving knife. If you watch some random videos involving shop work, you can see that done by many woodworkers. If cut quality were dependent on having a table saw with a knife behind the blade, then you’d be saying that cut quality was poor, or at least suffered for many decades while we waited for the riving knife to be added to some table saws. That is not the case. I acknowledge that it might be the case that having the knife improves the cut for some users, in some situations.

I also believe, in case you do want opinions, that if you are at all concerned about cut quality,about the last thing you want to do is mount a jig saw upside down in a table.
.

-- Jim, Houston, TX

View ColeH's profile

ColeH

5 posts in 274 days


#10 posted 03-18-2017 03:56 AM

Hi Jim, I apologize if my message offended you. Your message offended me and I snapped back. The intention of the forum isn’t to argue and I am sorry I engaged in it. I mention above how new and green I am and instead of offering me value and an explanation, you sent a response on how you weren’t aware of that function. The tone of your message came across to me that your knowledge is superior. Based on your response to my defence, I took you out of context. Neither here nor there, I am over it and I hope you harbor no anger towards me.

When I google benefits of a knife, cut quality appears over and over. I have push sticks, but I can’t keep the material tight to the fence when I re-grip or on long stock the last foot is very difficult for me. I have a tendency to turn into the blade. I didn’t state that a riving knifes main purpose is cut quality, I think you took that out of context. I simply stated why it was important to me to have one. If I built an end grain cutting board right now, my first glue up would require lots of sanding due to my push stick skills

As for the jig saw, not concerned about cut quality on that. Those cuts are always 1/16 from the line and spindle sanded to the mark. I don’t like it, but I am not ready to step up yet

View ChefHDAN's profile

ChefHDAN

992 posts in 2685 days


#11 posted 03-23-2017 07:59 PM

Cole, I don’t have a riving knife and I can’t say that it has any effect on my cut quality… My technique now THAT can have an effect, and it’s not too uncommon for that last inch of a cut to walk a little into the blade when I’m finishing up the cut and don’t keep great pressure with the stick.. Of course, because I know that can happen, just like snipe at the planer or the jointer, I leave the pieces a bit long and use a dead nuts sled to cut my pieces to length once the other dimensions are set. Remember what you said before and let go of some of your CNC handcuffs. There is much more to the hobby that relying on the machines, you have to focus on your technique to develop your skills and acquire a talent for the craft. For a base line peek at some of the Winterthur Collection .... They didn’t have riving knives or even power for these pieces, and i don’t know if there’ll ever be a day I can be half as good as the old masters were, but I know all they had were sharp tools, dedication and a $hit-ton of practice….

A chisel & a chainsaw can both make sawdust & art too!

-- I've decided 1 mistake is really 2 opportunities to learn.. learn how to fix it... and learn how to not repeat it

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MrUnix

5990 posts in 2034 days


#12 posted 03-23-2017 08:16 PM

When I google benefits of a knife, cut quality appears over and over. I have push sticks, but I can’t keep the material tight to the fence when I re-grip or on long stock the last foot is very difficult for me.
- ColeH

The splitter (which is what a riving knife is) is there to prevent the wood from engaging the back of the blade to prevent kick-back, and that’s it. If you are having problems with the wood moving towards the blade as you proceed with your cut, using other methods, such as a good push shoe (not stick), feather boards, “Board Buddies” and other similar type devices should be considered – not reliance on a splitter. You may also want to re-examine your technique for ripping, and ensure that your saw is aligned properly (particularly the fence to blade relationship).

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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