LumberJocks Woodworking Forum banner

Differences in Plane quality

3K views 24 replies 19 participants last post by  Jon_Banquer 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I'm trying to determine what type and brand of plane to purchase without breaking the bank. I'd like something that can do what a jointer and planer do only by hand. Which companies make good introductory level planes, and is there a huge difference in low to mid-line planes? Or should I try to find good, used high-end planes?

Any advice will be much appreciated.

Thanks
 
#2 ·
I am certainly not an expert on hand planes but I have recently developed a real interest in them and I have been doing a lot of research to learn more.

Based on everything I have read, I believe that used planes is the way to go. There are many on e-bay. I would avoid the real cheap stuff (< $10) and the real expensive stuff (>$50). My strategy was to acquire 2 - 3 lower priced planes ($20 - 25) primarily for the purpose of learning. After some hands on experience I may be satisfied with the planes I have or, if I want to buy better, I will better understand what I want.

I would recommend a jointer plane and a jack plane to get started.

To work effectively with a plane you have to have the ability to sharpen and tune them properly. There is much written on the subject and you should bring yourself "up to speed" on sharpening and tuning a plane before jumping in.
 
#3 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hi Henry. There is a large difference in quality between low end planes and high end. That doesn't mean high end planes are better though. It just means they might be ready to go out of box compared to low end ones which might need extra flattening or squaring of the sides of the plane to the sole. Hand planes is a huge topic though, I'd recommend reading Christopher Schwarz has an excellent book on planes and there is a ton of info out there.

Personally, I think the blade quality makes more of a difference than the plane. Unless you buy a high end plane, your plane probably comes with a very thin plane iron(blade). I'd recommend replacing it and the chipbreaker immediately to a HOCK blade.

If you search through e-bay like Rich says, you can sometimes find some excellent buys on old handplanes. The really old stanleys are much better built than new ones. I found an antique 1880's #7 jointer handplane for $50 that was in excellent condition. It still had its original Japanning and very little rust or pits in the sole. New #7's are in the high 100s for low end ones. If you go the used route though, make sure you are not buying trash. So avoid planes that have pits near the front part of the sole.

I'm sure you will get some very different opinions from other LJ's though. Good luck.
 
#5 · (Edited by Moderator)
FWIW, I have Groz planes (low end cheapies) fitted with Hock irons and chip breakers. So far a #4 and a #5. I had to spend a little bit of time tightening up fasteners, and flattening soles, but it was time well spent in my shop.

A lot of guys recommend antiques from Stanley, Bailey, Record and such. I have not had any luck finding decent examples in an affordable range.

I am enjoying my Groz planes well enough that I am planning on adding a #6 and #7 to my collection this spring…

I have had bad experiences with modern Stanley, and Buck Bros planes. However I have friends that have the Buck Bros #4 and have tuned them to make a very workable plane for themselves…
 
#6 · (Edited by Moderator)
I know that this is not going to be a popular answer but for hand planes, i would save up until I could afford the good stuff. I am not particularly good with handtools, but I do use scapers and planes fairly frequently now because I invested in Lee Valley equipment (I am sure that Lie Nielsen and other are equal good).

I tried using basic Stanley and Grolz gear and did not get good enough results. I tried upgrading the equipment with aftermarket blades and it worked better.

Neither of these options is even close to the results, or more importantly the enjoyment, I get from using the Lee Valley equipment. The planes that I use the most often in priority order are:

1. Veritas #4 smoothing plane (could not live without) - most general planing tasks from roughing stock to cleaning up faces
2. Veritas low angle block plane (could not live without) - quick touch ups and all end grain work
3. Veritas bevel up 22" jointer plane - for very long edge jointer or large faces
4. Veritas bull nose plane - cleaning up joinery

I am sure experts can make any tool work but I think lower end hand tools take out the enjoyment of the work.
 
#8 ·
For me i have been hitting the local tag sales in the area. I have picked up a Stanley Bailey #4, Stanley Bailey #5, and Groz #5 (which i plan on converting into a scrub plane) for a grand total of about $30. Another $20 for a gallon of Evapo-Rust and $20 in sandpaper and a week or so refurbishing and tuning.

I feel like this was the best way for me to get into handplanes without breaking the bank on the high end planes. and by dismantling, cleaning and tuning them i have a much better idea as to how and why they work.

Next up is Garrett Hack's book on Handplanes.

Grand total about $100 out the door to get me started into handplanes.
 
#11 ·
Here's the deal. If you know how a plane is supposed to work, how to tell what the problems are, and how to tune them, then most any plane can be made to work well. I have a total POS Craftsman #4 (first plane and I didn't know any better) that I have tuned up (better blade, flattened sole, etc) and working really well. Unfortunately, I only really figured out how to do that 3 years later when I got my hands on a nice veritas plane and had a forehead-slapping moment: "Oh wow, so THIS is how it's supposed to go".

Bottom line, I'd recommend that your first plane be a good one, ready to go right out of the box. Once you get comfy with their operation and maintenance, THEN you can look for those great deals and fix-er-up-ers.

If you have a buddy who can bootstrap you (by teaching you to tune a plane or loaning you a nicely tuned one), then that could work too. Books and blogs are great, but there's no substitute for getting your hands on one.
 
#12 ·
I hear you, mstenner. I'm new to this area and don't know any professional woodworkers who could show me a few things about planes. Is there anyone on the forum from the Denver area who might want to help me out?
 
#14 ·
Hendry -the link to CL you posted is actually EXACTLY what you are looking for - they range from 70-100+ depending on condition and it looks brand new.

a #7 will allow you to joint a board and plane a board/panel flat. mind you the smaller #4 will not be able to do that - they will only be good for finishing and smoothing the boards -but they will not make them flat.

I'd take that Record plane if I was in your neighborhood myself!
 
#15 ·
I recently became a very big fan of using hand planes. I bought two old hand planes for less then 10 dollars total. I got a old craftsman bench plane and a Shelton Jack plane. I never had any intention of using these much. I just wanted to have some planes on hand in case I should need to use. With no clue on how to use them, tune them or sharpen a blade I decided to use them to flatten a small board. After hours of work and tons of chipping, tear out and no fine shavings I still didn't have a flat board. I was so upset with myself because I did not expect it to be that hard to use and figure out. However this poor attempt to plane a board only motivated me to start learning. So my first bit of advice is to just start reading and take it all in.

I also gained a lot of knowledge by completely taking the planes apart, cleaning them up and seeing how they were built. This really helped me understand them. Even if you buy a new plane I suggest taking apart and studying the parts.

As for the plane quality. Well I am in no way an experienced plane user and I am still working on "getting it" but IMO the most important factor is that you have a sharp blade. My planes are considered junk planes by many but once I got the blades sharp and planes tuned up they started producing very fine shavings. I would never call them junk. They may not be considered good quality by many but I use them and am able to make them work just fine for what I do. I am looking for that great deal on a great quality used plane but until I find the right one I will continue to use my "cheap" ones.

Don't feel you need to go out and buy the best and most expensive. My advice is to get a cheaper plane, learn how it works, get it sharp and see if it does the job for you. If you like it and use often enough then consider spending more on a quality plane.
 
#17 ·
Lee Valley and Lie-Nielson will give you a top quality plane right out of the box. Groz, Buck bros, Stanley (even their new better quality), and used planes will require some if not a lot of tuning and work to get them to work well. Unless you are lucky in the used market, its break the bank or break your back. Flattening a sole can be a real challenge, both physically and mentally. Setting a frog has led to a lot of premature baldness. If you can go to a local tool collector's meeting (MWTCA -Mid West Tool Collectors Assoc for one) you can get a lot of good tips as well as find some decent used tools for a fair price.

That said, the process of learning how and doing the tune-up on a half-way decent user plane will not be wasted effort, as you will really know what to look for in the future, know what you need to do should you decide to make your own, and help you get those "steal" bargains when seeing a used one for sale.

So, it really depends on you and your temperament. If you enjoy a challenge, go inexpensive. If you are into the "how and why", also go inexpensive. If you are broke, you have no choice. If you enjoy the finer things in life, and expect something to work right from the get-go, dig into the bank account. The problem with Lee-Valley and Lie-Nielson is that once you get a taste of them, it's hard to regress.

JMTCW

Go
 
#18 · (Edited by Moderator)
Yes you will need a jointer for what you describe and that Record would be fabulous at it and better than anything you could get new for under $300. So it is a good deal and judging by the photos would require very little work.

Here is my theory of the used old Jointer planes. Old Jacks (#5) and smoothing planes (#4) were very popular. Stanley convinced a lot of people that they needed one. So it is likely that half of them or more were formerly owned by people that never bothered to make them work they way they were supposed to. And given that many of them are in the ballpark of 100 years old, it is also likely that they changed hands several times, and in the absence of the internet there were a lot that never got tuned and used correctly. The 7 and 8 jointers were a different story. They weren't usually owned by the average homeowner. They were owned by the craftsman or the ones that wanted to be craftsmen. Most of the old 7 or 8's I see on the used market if they aren't in "rusted in the barn for 60 years condition" are tuned and largely ready to go. soles are flat, mouths are tight. Blades may even be pretty sharp. They seem to need less tuning than the more common 4s and 5s. They also are used in more specific ways .. to joint edges of wood, so they have been tuned to that alone.

The 4's and 5's were often used coarsely so are set with big gaping mouths, which leads many modern internet readers to assume they need lots of tuning in order to get the apparent holy grail…. the whispy thin shaving. ... primarily reserved for the woodworker that wants to tickle the wood all day instead of getting work done. The 4 is the only one that should be chasing the whispy thin shaving in most cases.

I guess my long rambling point is that many proponents of spending lots of cash on brand new precision planes often cite that it would save them hours and hours of fettling. The reality I find is that if I look at a collection of old Stanleys from 100 years back, many can be put to use immediately and function exactly as they were intended. Only the ones that have been severely neglected or never set up properly to begin with need lots of work. They also functioned pretty well with the irons that came with them.

The logic is sort of like this. If a woodworker owns one of these work of art Lie Nielsen or Veritas planes and then they get old and die… and their son hangs on to it until they are old, then the grandson knowing nothing of woodworking sells it at the estate sale… where an avid woodworker picks it up and uses it for 20 years… then they die and the plane changes hands a couple of more times.. when it is 100 years old and falls into the hands of some new age woodworker…. is it going to need to have days spent tuning it??? NO if it wasn't abused, sharpen it and put it to work. (If old tools could talk, I'd like to think that's what they would say.) {end of rant}
 
#19 ·
I'm with Rich. When getting started, I like the idea of getting some used planes. Even if you find a couple of really cheap flea market ones. As a general rule, you can't go wrong with a Stanley Bailey or most any Millers Falls plane. Learn to clean it up and tune it. I recommend the Garret Hack book appropriately named, "The Hand Plane Book." From the process of restoring an old plane, you may or may not end up with a good plane, but you will learn tremendously valuable information about planes in general as well as what you want in a plane. After doing this with 2 or 3 planes, you will then be able to decide whether to continue seeking out after good bargains on used planes or if you want to go off the deep end and buy a Lie Nielsen. The best part, you can learn an awful lot of good information without spending more than just a few bucks. I have planes that I have purchased at Thrift Stores for $5.00 that work beautifully. I also have some more expensive planes that I have never been able to get to operate satisfactorily.

Doc
 
#20 ·
Thank you, all of you, for helping me out. I decided to wait a bit to rush into a plane now, but I ordered the Garret Hack book on your recommendations and another book on sharpening planes and other tools. I've never been afraid of used tools but planes are new to me and I'd like to avoid the power jointer purchase. My grandfather was a woodworker and I remember watching him as a boy work with his planes. It's such a shame but my grandmother's sister sold all of his tools in the late 70s after my grandmother died. Sold them right out from under my dad.

I was just looking on e-bay. Wow, there are a lot of Stanley Bailey planes up there for sale. Not many jointer planes but several smaller planes. I'll keep an eye out as I read and talk to guys.

Much thanks!
 
#21 ·
Henry, here's another thing you might consider: Build a plane.

I've built a couple of Krenov style wooden planes and they are the best performers I have. Better than the old Stanleys I've tuned. I like them for their shape and the way they feel in my hand as well as their performance.

Here's a link to a very good book: http://www.amazon.com/Making-Mastering-Wood-Planes-Revised/dp/140272022X
 
#22 ·
Thanks for the recommendation for that book Rileysdad. I'll have to keep an eye out for it to come down… those used prices right now are a bit much. One of my favorites is Restoring, tuning and Using classic woodworking tools by Michael Dunbar … unfortunately that has gone crazy pricey too. Glad I got my copy years ago when it was cheap.
 
#24 ·
Be aware that being a Stanley does not make it a good plane. Their "Bailey" line is the good stuff. I have one lesser Stanley that, in terms of fit and finish, blade quality and feel is just another cheap plane.

Paul M
 
#25 ·
I believe the David Fink book referenced in the first link is insanely priced because it went out of print. David Fink now publishes his own book.

I feel I would have greatly benefited if I knew about James Krenov before I started to try and figure out what kind of plane (metal or wood) I should use. For sure I feel I made a huge mistake thinking wooden planes had been replaced by metal planes and that metal planes were superior.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top