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All Wood Construction Vs Metal Fasteners

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Forum topic by TObenhuber posted 03-12-2017 10:09 PM 842 views 0 times favorited 13 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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TObenhuber

156 posts in 1427 days


03-12-2017 10:09 PM

Topic tags/keywords: humor resource tip question trick oak pine douglas doug fir spf bandsaw drill-driver planer drill press miter saw router spray gun blade clamp jointer plane sander tablesaw finishing refurbishing joining sanding sharpening woodburning traditional rustic arts and crafts

I have fairly recently started selling some of my work on the local online yard sales and craigslist. I don’t have any fantasy of hitting it rich or turning it into a full time job. My goal is to self fund my hobby by making projects for others to keep my shop running between home reno and my honey do list. So far it’s been a break even on materials with marginal returns on time. I’m sure many of you understand the woodworking hobby game working for cents on the hour sometimes. I’ve been enjoying the time in the shop working on projects and styles I enjoy. Then being able to turn them around for real money. That’s a good feeling.

I know my woodworking preferences. I have almost always worked in cheap BORG supplies like Harbor Freight, Minwax, Doug Fir, and Pine. Those are in my price range, convinent distance from my house, and I enjoy turning construction materials into things folks would never expect to show well. I know there are plenty of opinions on using cheap BORG softwood and finishing products for furniture projects but that’s my lane of the road. I enjoy it.

I have recently started a common style but one I enjoy making using ¾” dowels on 2X Lumber. I have sold a few benches and currently finishing a commissioned project for a potential client. All using screws for fasteners to allow glue to dry, redrilling the holes at ¾”, then tapping in dowels of appropriate size to finish the joints. I figure if there have been houses and barns held together for decade and centuries using this method. It’s good enough for me.

and

and

My question, do people really care about the all wood construction? Or, is the larger population just fine buying pocket holes and screws?

I don’t want to sacrifice what I enjoy and I won’t for projects I am keeping but for projects for sale. I am just not sure it’s always worth the extra effort to remove all of the metal when pocket holes are faster and easier. I enjoy both processes but the all wood means more to me and I think that’s the hump I am thinking about. I looked at Pier One, Pottery Barn, IKEA, …ETC and see that crap flying off the shelf but when a small time hobbyist makes something of higher quality with lower pricing that will possibly last much longer. Folks want to pay peanuts.

Seems frustrating.

What do you guys and gals think and recommend? Open to any paradigm shift you provide.

-- Travis, Virginia, www.facebook.com/CreativeWoodworksHybla


13 replies so far

View JackDuren's profile

JackDuren

331 posts in 794 days


#1 posted 03-12-2017 10:41 PM

On seats like that all wood mechanical construction wont make much of a difference. I would just stick to your current plan. You could save yourself with a plug cutter.

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

4477 posts in 2186 days


#2 posted 03-12-2017 10:47 PM

I think your methods are sound, but I don’t think the public cares whether you use dowels or screws. A compromise might be using screws and plugs, that certainly looks better than pocket screws. You might try making the same product several different ways and keep track of your time and see if there is any difference in customer preference if you offer them all at the same price. A market test and a time study rolled into one.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View Loren's profile

Loren

9610 posts in 3482 days


#3 posted 03-12-2017 10:51 PM

Only really high-end, educated clients
care about all-wood construction and would
tend to limit that preference to reproduction
styles.

I’ve seen plugged pocket holes used in
high-end chair construction. It looks ok
and I assume buyers aren’t bothered. Today
everybody is used to metal fasteners and
only in the case of specific furniture types
and styles would using screws be an
artistic crime.

View TObenhuber's profile

TObenhuber

156 posts in 1427 days


#4 posted 03-12-2017 11:06 PM

JackDuren, bondogaposis, Loren,

Thanks for the replies. At least I know I’m not off my rocker. I’ll probably keep the dowel joints as my primary means of jointing. I really like it and it really doesn’t take long.

Maybe I should bust out the framing nailer and nail one project together. That would surely be fast. LOL!!!


You might try making the same product several different ways and keep track of your time and see if there is any difference in customer preference if you offer them all at the same price. A market test and a time study rolled into one.

- bondogaposis

Really go idea.

I did stroll through those mass produced stores recently with my wife and that’s probably why I’m bothered. Some of that stuff is just so expensive and just not built to last. Its sad when you look at things in the store for sale and notice things that need to be fixed. LOL!!! Then you fix them. I had a store employee looking at me but I told them I’ll fix it and they walked off.

-- Travis, Virginia, www.facebook.com/CreativeWoodworksHybla

View Madmark2's profile

Madmark2

371 posts in 423 days


#5 posted 03-12-2017 11:10 PM

Figure out the metal attachment and leave the caps off (or put caps in kit) so you can ship knocked down flat and have cust assemble – you’ll save a bunch of shipping.

M

View TObenhuber's profile

TObenhuber

156 posts in 1427 days


#6 posted 03-12-2017 11:21 PM



Figure out the metal attachment and leave the caps off (or put caps in kit) so you can ship knocked down flat and have cust assemble – you ll save a bunch of shipping.

M

- Madmark2

Interesting. I haven’t tried shipping anything yet. Mostly local. I might have to move into that area at some point and I will definitely take your advice.

-- Travis, Virginia, www.facebook.com/CreativeWoodworksHybla

View Rick_M's profile

Rick_M

10610 posts in 2215 days


#7 posted 03-13-2017 01:31 AM

Metal fasteners only bother woodworkers, the public doesn’t care. Just like hand cut vs machine cut dovetails.

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View TObenhuber's profile

TObenhuber

156 posts in 1427 days


#8 posted 03-13-2017 02:16 AM



Metal fasteners only bother woodworkers, the public doesn t care. Just like hand cut vs machine cut dovetails.

- Rick M

Probably one of the easier things to forget. Most of my opinions are from the woodworker point of view. Not the general public’s. Very Good Point. I might be to far into the woodworking trench. This sight is wonderful for this type of insight. Easy to forget the public LOVES Ikea type CRAP!!!

-- Travis, Virginia, www.facebook.com/CreativeWoodworksHybla

View corelz125's profile

corelz125

314 posts in 811 days


#9 posted 03-13-2017 02:28 AM

You hit the nail on the head the public is completely happy with that ikea type of curbside furniture. Most of the public can’t tell the difference between good solid all wood construction and pressed board junk.

View DirtyMike's profile

DirtyMike

637 posts in 736 days


#10 posted 03-13-2017 02:29 AM

Don’t take this the wrong way , But you are using construction grade lumber for furniture and you are worried about the impact of using metal fasteners. I am no hardwood snob, but the moisture content and movement of 2x lumber is very real.

View TObenhuber's profile

TObenhuber

156 posts in 1427 days


#11 posted 03-13-2017 10:15 AM


You hit the nail on the head the public is completely happy with that ikea type of curbside furniture. Most of the public can t tell the difference between good solid all wood construction and pressed board junk.

- corelz125

Thanks, got to put the pieces together slowly. Always learning.


Don t take this the wrong way , But you are using construction grade lumber for furniture and you are worried about the impact of using metal fasteners. I am no hardwood snob, but the moisture content and movement of 2x lumber is very real.

- DirtyMike

Even if I let it rest and let the wood reach acceptable moisture contents. I’d say the techniques are the same regardless of hardwoods or softwoods. The grade of wood and the added work to get the required finish should be the only difference right? Just a question and no offense taken.

Anyways, my concern wasn’t the impact so much as to should I even waist time. Pocket holes are cheap and fast vs the dowel technique I’ve used lately or if it even matters. As others have said and I’ll tend to agree, cheap and fast knock down furniture for sale. M&T or “through dowel joints” for me.

Thanks guys and gals.

-- Travis, Virginia, www.facebook.com/CreativeWoodworksHybla

View Tony_S's profile

Tony_S

765 posts in 2917 days


#12 posted 03-13-2017 10:26 AM



Metal fasteners only bother woodworkers, the public doesn t care. Just like hand cut vs machine cut dovetails.

- Rick M

I’ll take that one step further and say the good majority of the public doesn’t care about dovetails at all.
Not in my experience anyway…


Only really high-end, educated clients
care about all-wood construction and would
tend to limit that preference to reproduction
styles.
- Loren

Yep.

-- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle

View TObenhuber's profile

TObenhuber

156 posts in 1427 days


#13 posted 03-13-2017 10:34 AM

Metal fasteners only bother woodworkers, the public doesn t care. Just like hand cut vs machine cut dovetails.

- Rick M

I ll take that one step further and say the good majority of the public doesn t care about dovetails at all.
Not in my experience anyway…

- Tony_S

Good point again. Looking at Pier One with my wife there weren’t any dovetails or M&T. Just pin nails, lose screws, and pocket holes. Then they still want your right arm for the price.

-- Travis, Virginia, www.facebook.com/CreativeWoodworksHybla

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