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Dusty Dust Collection issues

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Forum topic by DrAllred posted 10-09-2010 11:51 PM 3969 views 2 times favorited 23 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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DrAllred

137 posts in 1546 days


10-09-2010 11:51 PM

I have a Jet DC-1100 unit with a canister filter, when using it for chip collection from the Table saw, Band Saw, Miter saw, Planer, and Drill press it works like a charm, that is after I clean it out. With the furniture I build I do a lot of sanding using my Band, Drum and Pneumatic sanders and they produce a lot of fine dust, thus the need for the canister filter.

Now to the issue, the filer has flaps that rotate inside to knock the dust from the pleats and thus improving the suction, well, that works for just a short time, like a min or two. So, here is a picture of the dust after spinning the flaps for about 2 minutes, notice where the dust is sitting.


It is all on top of the plate, just waiting for the next time you turn it on to be sucked back into the filter. So, my father and I cleaned out the filter, and he pushed the dust back into the bag. Now for the test, we placed the cleaned filter back on and turned the system on for 2 min, we had about 4 blast gates open. I then removed the canister after spinning the flaps two full turns. Here is what we get. Oh, I also set the canister on the ground and spun the flaps for a while and I got a large pile of dust out of the canister.

So, after seeing the evidence, What is the problem, Do others have this issue also, is there a way to modify this unit to eliminate the pickup of the dust again? What shall I do, it kills me to use the drum sander and after 1-2 min to stop, take the canister off, shovel the dust out and start again. What a time killer.

Do I sell this to another person, do I buy a cyclone, or do I modify this one and get a patent for the modification, or call Jet and complain a lot?

Help?

Thanks for listening, wait, strike that, Thanks for reading.

David

-- David, Mesa Arizona


23 replies so far

View NBeener's profile

NBeener

4806 posts in 1897 days


#1 posted 10-10-2010 12:11 AM

Doesn’t make a lot of sense, does it ?

It would seem that … if they put “vanes” on the flaps that are used to scrape the cartridge innards … it would direct the dust toward the center—where it belongs.

Could you fab up some—whatever—1/4” sticks (square lengths of wood, possibly with a channel cut in the upward facing part), and glue them to the flaps—even as a trial/mockup—to see if they would direct the dust, better ??

I’m thinking … like … one vane every six inches ?? They’d have to go right to the edge, where the scraping gets done, and then tilt downward, from there….

Weird.

-- -- Neil

View Rick  Dennington's profile

Rick Dennington

3567 posts in 1917 days


#2 posted 10-10-2010 03:04 AM

Hey Dr.
It looks a little flatter than normal, but hard to tell in the pixs.(2) Do the flaps go all the way up and down the canister full length to knock off the dust? I’m just pulling things out of my head here, but it should NOT pile up like that…..Make sure that ALL your blast gates are closed except the one you’re using at the time….don’t open more than one….There is not much left I can think of that’s causing this problem…..Try waxing the plate or lip and see if that helps…..lol….Maybe someone else will chime in that’s had a problem like this, hopefully…...I’ve about used up all my bag of tricks…....good luck and hope you find out the problem….Last resort…..call Jet and tell them what’s going on…....

There is something deffently afoul here. I’ve never seen one do that before. I’ve got a Delta 50-850(1200 cfms), with a Wynn canister filter, and it has NEVER did that…Strange!!!!! There are a couple of possibilites here, but neither one may be the problem: (1) From the pics, the 3rd one down, it looks like there is not enough slope on the inside lip, or plate as you called it, to let the dust fall into the bag(?). But I don’t know.

-- " I started with nothing, and I've still got most of it left".......

View DrAllred's profile

DrAllred

137 posts in 1546 days


#3 posted 10-10-2010 05:25 AM

I wonder if there is a difference when using the canister or the cloth bag. The unit came with a bag and I purchased the canister and placed it on it. Also, I did not run any machines when I did the 2 min test, the dust came from the bottom of the bag.

Thanks

-- David, Mesa Arizona

View Rick  Dennington's profile

Rick Dennington

3567 posts in 1917 days


#4 posted 10-10-2010 07:39 AM

Hey Doc,

Just a thought…Take the canister off and put the cloth bag back on and see what it does. If it works good, then you may have a faulty canister….I’ve never heard of one, but you never know..Won’t hurt to try…..From what you say, it sounds like the dust is blowing UP into the filter like something is reversed…sounds crazy…lol.
When you run the d.c., you should see dust swirling in the bag, and settle to the bottom when you turn it off…..normaly.

-- " I started with nothing, and I've still got most of it left".......

View Scott Bryan's profile

Scott Bryan

27251 posts in 2545 days


#5 posted 10-10-2010 01:37 PM

David, I have noticed a similar build-up in my Powermatic collector, which is essentially identical to your Jet. I am guessing that this build-up is simply inherent to the construction design since the joint between the upper and lower units is a shelf. But this build up has not been a problem for me with regards to the operation of my collector. The upper cannister should be collecting the very fine dust since the collector is essentially operating in cyclonic fashion with the lower bag trapping the heavier particles and the upper canister capturing the fine dust that would be vented to your shop.

One thing that has helped the efficiency of my collector is a trash can separator.

-- Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful- Joshua Marine

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

15714 posts in 2941 days


#6 posted 10-10-2010 04:02 PM

Scott sort of hit on what I was thinking…. The bottom line is does it work? Are you losing suction because of that buildup, or are you just stopping to knock that dust off the ledge every couple of minutes because you know it’s there and that knowledge bugs you? :-)

I have a tiny shop and my only dust collection system is my shop vac with a Dust Deputy cyclone attached to it. I can definitely vouch for the efficiency of cyclonic dust collection.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View Sawkerf's profile

Sawkerf

1730 posts in 1792 days


#7 posted 10-10-2010 04:12 PM

Your’s looks just like mine did when I cleaned it yesterday. I’ve noticed that the amount of dust sitting on that plate varies with the level of dust/chips in the collection bag. IOW, when the bag is full (like in your first picture) there’s lots of dust. If I remove my cartridge filter when the bag is ~1/2 full, I don’t have much dust at all.

This makes sense when you think about it. There’s a LOT of air swirling around in there when the DC is running, and as the collection bag fills up, there’s less room for the dust to drop into the bag. The dust also really cakes up on the filter, so there’s less air exhausting thru the filter.

I generally avoid most of the problem by changing my collection bag (and cleaning the filter) when it’s ~2/3 full instead of waiting for it to completely fill. Once, I let it overfill, and it took me half of a morning to clean up the mess. – lol

-- Adversity doesn't build character...................it reveals it.

View Peter Oxley's profile

Peter Oxley

1426 posts in 2598 days


#8 posted 10-10-2010 05:02 PM

I have the same problem with rapid loss of suction with a HF collector and aftermarket pleated filter. I find that if I wait a minute or two after cleaning the filter before turning the collector on, it goes longer without clogging.

I wonder if you could extend the vanes down, so that they brush the dust off of the cone/shelf?

Another thought – I have a trash-can seperator, and it actually catches a lot of fines.

-- http://www.peteroxley.com -- http://north40studios.etsy.com --

View DrAllred's profile

DrAllred

137 posts in 1546 days


#9 posted 10-10-2010 05:43 PM

Charlie, I do lose suction after a few minutes. My drum sander starts leaving dust buildup behind on the wood that I am sanding.

The first picture of the system is when it is running, there is about 8” of stuff in the bottom bag. I am wondering if a cyclone would be better as I do generate a lot of sanding dust.

Next question, I am thinking of building a test using the Thien Cyclone concept in the middle part of the DC. I have some ideas about it. Also, I noticed that most cyclones have the air enter at the top if the filter and a catch bucket at the bottom, this would allow the dust to fall and not be sucked back into the filter. Ideas, ideas, ideas are running rampant in my head today…..

But in the mean time I guess I will just remove the filter once a day an clean it out.

David

-- David, Mesa Arizona

View richgreer's profile

richgreer

4525 posts in 1798 days


#10 posted 10-10-2010 08:36 PM

I have the same DC but with the bag (not the canister on top). I don’t have this problem.

However, I have never relied on my dust collector for serious collection of fine sanding dust. IMO it is better suited to collect chips and the sawdust from TS, BS, Planer, Jointer and router. The DC gets some of the fine sanding dust but a lot of it escapes. To address that you need an air filtration system.

Alternatively, the very best way to sand with virtually no dust escaping is to get a festool sander and dust extractor. I have one and they are amazing. Virtually no dust escapes.

-- Rich, Cedar Rapids, IA - I'm a woodworker. I don't create beauty, I reveal it.

View b2rtch's profile

b2rtch

4351 posts in 1771 days


#11 posted 10-10-2010 11:02 PM

You need a cyclone separator or to plane and not to sand.
Planning can be enjoyable, it produce not dust and it prepares the wood to be finished like no sanding can do it.

-- Bert

View Manitario's profile

Manitario

2377 posts in 1606 days


#12 posted 10-10-2010 11:52 PM

Interesting problem. I have a similar setup with my dust collector; which I swapped out the cloth upper bag for an aftermarket canister. I wonder if this is an inherent problem to most canister based DC’s.

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

View DrAllred's profile

DrAllred

137 posts in 1546 days


#13 posted 10-11-2010 01:04 AM

I am glad that the dust is contained in the DC.

When I do a production run of chairs, hand planning them is out of the question, that is why I have a drum sander, I use 150 grit and they come out just perfect, that is for outdoor furniture.

I am looking up plans to build a cyclone either a separator or a full DC, not sure just yet.

David

-- David, Mesa Arizona

View Steven H's profile

Steven H

1114 posts in 1783 days


#14 posted 10-11-2010 03:37 AM

Build a cyclone, that should take care of your problem.

View Abbott's profile

Abbott

2570 posts in 2027 days


#15 posted 10-11-2010 04:21 AM

I built and use one of these Thein Separator it works great!

-- Ohh mann...pancakes and boobies...I'll bet that's what Heaven is like! ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣

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