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Forum topic by richgreer posted 10-09-2010 08:24 PM 1689 views 0 times favorited 35 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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richgreer

4541 posts in 2541 days


10-09-2010 08:24 PM

I was reading about the Bridge City Tools TS-2 square. I read that it was exactly 90 degrees to a tolerance of .002 degrees. Being concerned about how far it could be off I used some basic math I determined that if a corner was off by .002 degrees at the end of a 12 foot line the line would be off 1/11,500 of an inch. I guess I can accept that as close enough.

First – could a square really be that accurate?

Second – what is the point to having a square that is that accurate? It’s nothing I could ever use in woodworking.

-- Rich, Cedar Rapids, IA - I'm a woodworker. I don't create beauty, I reveal it.


35 replies so far

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jusfine

2405 posts in 2392 days


#1 posted 10-09-2010 08:30 PM

Rich, it is funny that you posted this just now.

I came in from the shop after resetting and squaring my Excalibur sliding table, and was thinking that the square I was using was plenty good enough for checking.

As you say, who will ever be able to distinguish that minute a difference?

Not these older eyes…

Its a sales pitch, the smaller the amount the better I guess, for those who don’t figure it like you did.

-- Randy "You are judged as much by the questions you ask as the answers you give..."

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Jamie Speirs

4167 posts in 2323 days


#2 posted 10-09-2010 08:32 PM

Hi Rich,
very valid point.
I think folk can go over the top a bit with the toys.
When you see the tools used in African villages, I think it has more to do with the hand to eye coordination than the tool. I think before I would go to the extremes in some of the higher priced tools I would want to see a difference first. I do drool over some of the top of the range planes though. :)
Jamie

-- Who is the happiest of men? He who values the merits of others, and in their pleasure takes joy, even as though 'twere his own. --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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a1Jim

115202 posts in 3043 days


#3 posted 10-09-2010 08:37 PM

Good point Rich
In the adult woodworking classes I teach we use the squares that are used by the high school and I always tell students to check them for square and most of the time there not. As I understand your main point is even when our squares really that square and how much out are they. I know there are more precision squares on the market but I question how good are me at making sure when using a square that we are at marking and cutting accurately. And does the average woodworker check for square after making our cuts?

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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Napoleon

788 posts in 2275 days


#4 posted 10-09-2010 08:41 PM

I guees what its important is it dosent matter if its out of square just as long as you cant see it :)

-- Boatbuilder&blacksmith

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jusfine

2405 posts in 2392 days


#5 posted 10-09-2010 08:42 PM

Jim, that’s why I was resetting my table, I always check. Makes life so much less stressful when assembly time arrives… :)

-- Randy "You are judged as much by the questions you ask as the answers you give..."

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docholladay

1287 posts in 2525 days


#6 posted 10-09-2010 08:42 PM

I suppose it depends on what you are doing. When I look at the way my house was built, I am fairly sure that the builder not only didn’t effectively use a level or a square, I’m fairly sure he didn’t even own one. It has really been fun in some of the projects I have done around the house. It has proven to be great training in the use of a bevel square. Anyway, obviously, it wasn’t necessary to be perfect to build a sturdy house. However, I used to work in a machine shop and our master machinist was very maticulous about measurements and fit of parts, and rightly so when you are dealing with some of the tolerances he was working with. He built high performance engines and it requires tremendous precision to build a high powered engine that will also stay together. However, I don’t remember him needing a combination or try square very often if at all. Mostly calipers and micrometers in those applications.

-- Hey, woodworking ain't brain surgery. Just do something and keep trying till you get it. Doc

View Rick  Dennington's profile

Rick Dennington

5182 posts in 2660 days


#7 posted 10-09-2010 08:54 PM

Good topic, Rich….I wonder how many of my squares are perfectly square? Is there anything ever perfect?
I think the word” accuracy” is made up by the people who makes these things for a good selling point.
They always tell you…”.Ours is more accurate than.”....bla,bla,bla,. They are just trying to outsell the compatition they are up aganist to get more business…..

-- At my age, an "all--nighter" is not having to get up and pee...!!!

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8iowa

1546 posts in 3227 days


#8 posted 10-09-2010 09:06 PM

I keep an inexpensive Empire 6” combination square in my apron. It’s handy as all heck. It is advertised to be square within .001 per inch. That means that my line drawn on wood could be .006 off at the end of 6”. This is acceptable for what I use this square for.

When you are doing machine set-up and alignment you need as much accuracy as you can get. I have a set of three engineer’s squares, a 12” Starrett combination square, and a Wixey digital angle gauge that I use for this purpose.

-- "Heaven is North of the Bridge"

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Woodwrecker

3928 posts in 3042 days


#9 posted 10-09-2010 10:29 PM

I wish my work was accurate enough to have those size measurements matter !!! LOL
“Looks good enough” is used freely in my old shop.

-- Eric, central Florida

View Ger21's profile

Ger21

1047 posts in 2597 days


#10 posted 10-10-2010 03:28 PM

Read their website again. It’s accurate to 90° ±.002 inches over the length of the blade.
.002” in 8” = .014°

I’ve had a TS-1 for over 15 years, and it’s one of my favorite tools.

-- Gerry, http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/index.html http://www.jointcam.com

View miles125's profile

miles125

2180 posts in 3472 days


#11 posted 10-10-2010 04:04 PM

There is a sort of pointlessness in seeking such precise tolerances in a material prone to movement like wood. I guess next someone will suggest a table top’s flatness needs to account for the curvature of the earth. :)

-- "The way to make a small fortune in woodworking- start with a large one"

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Rick

8287 posts in 2499 days


#12 posted 10-10-2010 04:23 PM

” I guess next someone will suggest a table top’s flatness needs to account for the curvature of the earth. :)”

Good one Miles!! LMAO! How about Curved Nails to account for the Curvature of the swing???

But Wait! I’m sure “Somebody” is gonna Chime in here and tell everyone how wrong they all are.

-- Hope Everyone Is Doing Well! .... Best Regards: Rick

View Mogebier's profile

Mogebier

170 posts in 2499 days


#13 posted 10-10-2010 05:55 PM

You can totally tell which of you are are Engineers and which of you are just doing Wood Working for fun :)

-- You can get more with a kind word and a 2 by 4, than you can with just a kind word.

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Rick

8287 posts in 2499 days


#14 posted 10-10-2010 06:37 PM

“You can totally tell which of you are are Engineers and which of you are just doing Wood Working for fun :)”

UHHMMM? So? If I’m an Engineer (Which I am.) and do Wood Working as one of a number of Hobbies or “Fun” (Which I do) That “Totall tells” me what? I broke the Mold? OR!! I’m a “Geek” (That’s a Good Word Folks..”Nerd” isn’t)

Geeks take Pride in doing things Other Normal People don’t do. Right Mogebier…LOL….

Photobucket

-- Hope Everyone Is Doing Well! .... Best Regards: Rick

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traupmann

124 posts in 2253 days


#15 posted 10-10-2010 06:38 PM

Wow, a group complaining about too much accuracy. Next I expect complaints that the board fit without the 5 lb adjustment tool. ;-)

-- chas -- looking for Serta sponsorship to go Pro...

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