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plane screw extraction and possible crack on sole?

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Forum topic by Marn64 posted 03-02-2017 11:00 PM 2962 views 0 times favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Marn64

295 posts in 620 days


03-02-2017 11:00 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question plane refurbishing screws

Well, it seems I’m at it again with planes whose screws just WON’T COME OUT!
I have this type 13 no 4 that is in awesome shape (save for what I think MIGHT be a small crack near the edge of the mouth), it even has some of the decal remaining on the tote. but on the frog, there is a screw that just won’t budge, I’ve tried pb blaster, some heat, brute force screwdriver, and electric screwdriver, nothing. What do you think, screw extraction time? Below are pictures of the offending spot that I think is a crack, I dunno, I think that’s what it is but will it get bigger over time or effect use? Finally, there’s some caked on dirt on the tote, I would normally go for mineral spirits, I’ve never cleaned a decaled tote before.

-- Benjamin, Milwaukee


17 replies so far

View corelz125's profile

corelz125

314 posts in 811 days


#1 posted 03-03-2017 03:15 AM

Try a soaking in evapo rust

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

8288 posts in 1321 days


#2 posted 03-03-2017 03:54 AM

It looks cracked to me. Probably won’t affect performance.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View Johnny7's profile

Johnny7

327 posts in 925 days


#3 posted 03-03-2017 06:06 AM

mineral spirits should be fine on the tote (just wipe it down; don’t scrub the decalled area)

I’m with Fridge—that crack (especially since on back side of mouth) should have zero effect.

Lastly, patience is the key to unsticking frozen tool parts. Soak it, let it sit; soak it again. Also, try “shocking” the affected screw by inserting the appropriately-sized screwdriver and smacking the screwdriver to break the bond.

as corelz points out, a soak in evaporust (or citric acid, or electrolysis) will eventually dissolve the bond between the two metals.

View Don W's profile

Don W

18520 posts in 2402 days


#4 posted 03-03-2017 03:20 PM

Electrolysis is the best answer. You can leave it cooking until it works. Definitely don’t try that with citric acid. It’ll ruin the plane.

Evapo-rust may be OK as long as it’s always completely submerged. I haven’t tested it so YMMV.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View Tim's profile

Tim

3680 posts in 1796 days


#5 posted 03-03-2017 09:32 PM

Does electrolysis work on stuck threads though? I haven’t tried it because I assumed it wouldn’t work since the line of sight between the electrodes that is needed would be blocked.

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Don W

18520 posts in 2402 days


#6 posted 03-05-2017 10:17 PM



Does electrolysis work on stuck threads though? I haven t tried it because I assumed it wouldn t work since the line of sight between the electrodes that is needed would be blocked.

- Tim

They tell me it does. I’m more of a “hit it with the torch” kind of guy, so I’ve never had to try it. I guess one of these days i’ll have to do a POC. Unfortunately the only stubborn screw I have in the shop right now is a Steers, and I can’t subject the rosewood strips on the sole to any type of heat or liquid. Next day in the shop some new drill bits and extractors will be in flight. Wish me luck!

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View Marn64's profile

Marn64

295 posts in 620 days


#7 posted 03-06-2017 01:07 AM


Does electrolysis work on stuck threads though? I haven t tried it because I assumed it wouldn t work since the line of sight between the electrodes that is needed would be blocked.

- Tim

They tell me it does. I m more of a “hit it with the torch” kind of guy, so I ve never had to try it. I guess one of these days i ll have to do a POC. Unfortunately the only stubborn screw I have in the shop right now is a Steers, and I can t subject the rosewood strips on the sole to any type of heat or liquid. Next day in the shop some new drill bits and extractors will be in flight. Wish me luck!

- Don W


You’re working on a steers? Nice, still looking for one of those. Are you sure you can’t subject the rosewood to steam and heat? I’m still a novice luthier but we expose rosewoods to heat and steam all the time when refretting and fingerboard removal. When after steaming joints apart you need to gently clamp it between two flat clamping cauls and wait for the moisture levels in the wood to return to normal, doesn’t take long on small and thin pieces of rosewood. Here is a link to an awesome steaming tool http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Tools_by_Job/Tools_for_Necks_and_Fingerboards/Neck_Joint_Steamer.html

-- Benjamin, Milwaukee

View corelz125's profile

corelz125

314 posts in 811 days


#8 posted 03-06-2017 03:21 AM

Don tried an impact driver tool on that screw?

View Don W's profile

Don W

18520 posts in 2402 days


#9 posted 03-06-2017 11:05 AM



Don tried an impact driver tool on that screw?

- corelz125

It’s broke off flush.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View Don W's profile

Don W

18520 posts in 2402 days


#10 posted 03-06-2017 11:07 AM


Does electrolysis work on stuck threads though? I haven t tried it because I assumed it wouldn t work since the line of sight between the electrodes that is needed would be blocked.

- Tim

They tell me it does. I m more of a “hit it with the torch” kind of guy, so I ve never had to try it. I guess one of these days i ll have to do a POC. Unfortunately the only stubborn screw I have in the shop right now is a Steers, and I can t subject the rosewood strips on the sole to any type of heat or liquid. Next day in the shop some new drill bits and extractors will be in flight. Wish me luck!

- Don W

You re working on a steers? Nice, still looking for one of those. Are you sure you can t subject the rosewood to steam and heat? I m still a novice luthier but we expose rosewoods to heat and steam all the time when refretting and fingerboard removal. When after steaming joints apart you need to gently clamp it between two flat clamping cauls and wait for the moisture levels in the wood to return to normal, doesn t take long on small and thin pieces of rosewood. Here is a link to an awesome steaming tool http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Tools_by_Job/Tools_for_Necks_and_Fingerboards/Neck_Joint_Steamer.html

- Marn64

I wouldn’t dare try it.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View Tim's profile

Tim

3680 posts in 1796 days


#11 posted 03-06-2017 05:37 PM


You re working on a steers? Nice, still looking for one of those. Are you sure you can t subject the rosewood to steam and heat? I m still a novice luthier but we expose rosewoods to heat and steam all the time when refretting and fingerboard removal. When after steaming joints apart you need to gently clamp it between two flat clamping cauls and wait for the moisture levels in the wood to return to normal, doesn t take long on small and thin pieces of rosewood. Here is a link to an awesome steaming tool http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Tools_by_Job/Tools_for_Necks_and_Fingerboards/Neck_Joint_Steamer.html

- Marn64

Steam heat is one thing, that’s in the 212 degree range, well below the burning temperature of wood. But a propane torch is a few thousand degrees, which can easily burn wood.

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Marn64

295 posts in 620 days


#12 posted 03-06-2017 07:52 PM


Does electrolysis work on stuck threads though? I haven t tried it because I assumed it wouldn t work since the line of sight between the electrodes that is needed would be blocked.

- Tim

They tell me it does. I m more of a “hit it with the torch” kind of guy, so I ve never had to try it. I guess one of these days i ll have to do a POC. Unfortunately the only stubborn screw I have in the shop right now is a Steers, and I can t subject the rosewood strips on the sole to any type of heat or liquid. Next day in the shop some new drill bits and extractors will be in flight. Wish me luck!

- Don W

You re working on a steers? Nice, still looking for one of those. Are you sure you can t subject the rosewood to steam and heat? I m still a novice luthier but we expose rosewoods to heat and steam all the time when refretting and fingerboard removal. When after steaming joints apart you need to gently clamp it between two flat clamping cauls and wait for the moisture levels in the wood to return to normal, doesn t take long on small and thin pieces of rosewood. Here is a link to an awesome steaming tool http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Tools_by_Job/Tools_for_Necks_and_Fingerboards/Neck_Joint_Steamer.html

- Marn64

I wouldn t dare try it.

- Don W


So what exactly holds those dovetailed rosewood strips in? I have never owned a Steers unfortunately so I wouldn’t know. Is it hide glue or screws?

-- Benjamin, Milwaukee

View corelz125's profile

corelz125

314 posts in 811 days


#13 posted 03-06-2017 11:46 PM

sounds like you have some precision plane surgery on your hands

View Don W's profile

Don W

18520 posts in 2402 days


#14 posted 03-07-2017 12:58 AM


I honestly don’t know what holds it in. It’s not screws though.

Does electrolysis work on stuck threads though? I haven t tried it because I assumed it wouldn t work since the line of sight between the electrodes that is needed would be blocked.

- Tim

They tell me it does. I m more of a “hit it with the torch” kind of guy, so I ve never had to try it. I guess one of these days i ll have to do a POC. Unfortunately the only stubborn screw I have in the shop right now is a Steers, and I can t subject the rosewood strips on the sole to any type of heat or liquid. Next day in the shop some new drill bits and extractors will be in flight. Wish me luck!

- Don W

You re working on a steers? Nice, still looking for one of those. Are you sure you can t subject the rosewood to steam and heat? I m still a novice luthier but we expose rosewoods to heat and steam all the time when refretting and fingerboard removal. When after steaming joints apart you need to gently clamp it between two flat clamping cauls and wait for the moisture levels in the wood to return to normal, doesn t take long on small and thin pieces of rosewood. Here is a link to an awesome steaming tool http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Tools_by_Job/Tools_for_Necks_and_Fingerboards/Neck_Joint_Steamer.html

- Marn64

I wouldn t dare try it.

- Don W

So what exactly holds those dovetailed rosewood strips in? I have never owned a Steers unfortunately so I wouldn t know. Is it hide glue or screws?

- Marn64


-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View dschlic1's profile

dschlic1

394 posts in 1804 days


#15 posted 03-08-2017 06:48 PM

Ok the screw is on the frog and it is broke off flush. Can you remove the frog? Or is the screw in the frog? If the screw is broke off flush with the threaded boss, then you will have to use some screw extraction techniques. One method is to carefully drill a hole in the center of the screw, insert a screw extractor and see if you can back out the deadhead that way. If that fails then you will have to drill out the screw completely and re-tap for the next larger screw size.

How good are your metal working skills?

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