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Ivans two Chisels...? A puzzling dilemma ( Actually Gouges)

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Forum topic by robscastle posted 02-26-2017 10:54 PM 1135 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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robscastle

4523 posts in 2042 days


02-26-2017 10:54 PM

I was given some tools that were part of my daughters DIL Dad’s toolkit.

He was a very talented graphic artist, carver, model maker and Bonsai propagator.

I decided to clean up the chisels and return them to their former glory

In doing so I started on the larger of the two.
First up I had to dress a grinding wheel to the curved profile, not realising at the time there was something different about them.
Having to profile a grinding wheel should have been a hint alone but it never twigged at the time.

I then attempted to grind the chisel, of which I found most difficult to do, (hence the pathetic effort at grinding)

Seeing the results I produced made me stop and go read up on how these chisels should be sharpened

It was upon checking various tool sharpening publications I find that the “chisels”? appear to have been ground on the reverse side which led me to think they may not be actually chisels after all.

No manufacturers markings were on them anywhere.

So I visited a few Bonsai sites to see if they were specalised Bonsai tools that I could identify with.
No definative info found there.

So I checked various wood carving sites and got the same result.

So do you know what theses tools are? ... and why they would be ground in reverse to normal convention?

Can I regrind them back with the view to using them as conventional curved chisels?

-- Regards Robert


15 replies so far

View JoeinGa's profile

JoeinGa

7724 posts in 1845 days


#1 posted 02-26-2017 11:00 PM

Maybe they were carving scoops?

-- Perform A Random Act Of Kindness Today ... Pay It Forward

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robscastle

4523 posts in 2042 days


#2 posted 02-26-2017 11:53 PM

Thanks JoeinGa,

I went and checked out Paul Sellers making spoons but his tools, (put your sun glasses on!) have the ground edge on the outside too.

Thats one impressive finish !!

-- Regards Robert

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

1504 posts in 1225 days


#3 posted 02-27-2017 12:17 AM

That “curved chisel” looks like a carving gouge which is typically sharpened with the bevel only on the outside surface but I remember seeing somewhere (Mary May’s tutorials on sharpening carving tools perhaps) that there are a few situations where you want a bevel on the inside. One thought is perhaps when you are carving a convex surface but there might be some other situations where the direction of the grain might make that an advantage?

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View putty's profile

putty

1158 posts in 1444 days


#4 posted 02-27-2017 12:23 AM

There are 2 kinds of gouges, in-cannels and out-cannels. The in-cannels are sharpened on the inside curved edge, the out-cannels are sharpened on the back side. I only know this due to the knowledge of LJ Dan Krager

-- Putty

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Chiselerinwood

3 posts in 295 days


#5 posted 02-27-2017 12:24 AM

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Set-of-4-offset-Pattern-maker-039-s-crank-neck-chisels-Patternmaker-039-s-fr-E411-/322432365284

check out this site, it shows chisels sharpened on the inside, like yours , for pattern
making. I have some too, crankgouges for pattern making, they sport an offset neck to allow one to get the chisel down into the pattern and still be able to go parallel to it.

-- Chiselerinwood, just makin' chips 'n' sawdust

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

9979 posts in 3890 days


#6 posted 02-27-2017 12:47 AM

Looks like Chiselerinwood nailed it…

You have a couple of Diamonds in the rough…

Enjoy them…

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

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pottz

2230 posts in 822 days


#7 posted 02-27-2017 12:50 AM

I agree chiselerinwood is probably the winner on this one,unless maybe our good buddy mark maybe has another spin on it?

-- sawdust the bigger the pile the bigger my smile-larry,so cal.

View robscastle's profile

robscastle

4523 posts in 2042 days


#8 posted 02-27-2017 01:00 AM

OK appreciate all of the most informative answers.

So much for the internet I dont know why I bothered in the first place …its all here on LJs !!

The chisels will remain in-cannels if for no other reason out of respect for the owner, and it kind of figures knowing his background.

I had a look at the link of the off set pattern makers chisels and it looks like they are ground 90 deg to the cutting edge.

Something I will have to learn about.

Putty, I will PM Dan Krager now
Thanks everyone.

-- Regards Robert

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

1504 posts in 1225 days


#9 posted 02-27-2017 01:08 AM

I would buy that if they were cranked neck like the ones on eBay. You would need the bevel on the top then, but this one is flat so the only time that inside bevel would be useful would seem to be inverted with bevel down as you carve a convex curve.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View Mark Wilson's profile

Mark Wilson

2046 posts in 901 days


#10 posted 02-27-2017 08:27 AM

I got nothin’.

-- Mark

View robscastle's profile

robscastle

4523 posts in 2042 days


#11 posted 02-28-2017 12:01 AM

Update
I PMed Dan Krager, and got some good info.

Standby for an update and I will see if I can get a finish on them like Paul Sellers…tell them they are dreaming come to mind!

-- Regards Robert

View bridgerberdel's profile

bridgerberdel

50 posts in 1080 days


#12 posted 03-01-2017 03:00 AM

Those are very useful when entering the wood at 90° and needing to maintain the radius. Think about mortising in a round corner hinge.

-- occasional musings on my blog: www.bridgerberdel.wordpress.com

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robscastle

4523 posts in 2042 days


#13 posted 03-01-2017 07:48 AM

Update:

I read up on all the info supplied, removed the profiled grinding wheel I custom dressed to do the job originally and put back my white knife sharpening wheel.

Set up the chisel grinding jig and ground the face of the larger of the two in cannel gouges square.

BTW I leant the difference between chisels and gouges in the process.

I then used my Guineive sanding system to grind and sharpen the cutting edge.

Here is the best finish I can get on the refurbishment.

The cutting edge

-- Regards Robert

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

1504 posts in 1225 days


#14 posted 03-01-2017 04:08 PM

One problem that I see is that the bevel is not a uniform angle along the entire edge. If it was, you would have a straight line where the bevel ends so the bevel angle near the corners is much steeper than in the middle. I suspect that this will make this gouge difficult to use. You may want to put a micro bevel on it by hand to help mitigate that. You might be able to use a much smaller sanding drum and pivot the gouge to get a micro bevel and then polish the micro bevel by hand using a slip stone or leather strop on a dowel with some honing compound.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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robscastle

4523 posts in 2042 days


#15 posted 03-02-2017 10:48 AM

Oh rats ! Your right…looks some more skill building and learning coming up, standby.

-- Regards Robert

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