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Any suggestions to reduce chipout?

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Forum topic by Dave Smith posted 02-17-2017 02:50 PM 1280 views 0 times favorited 36 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Dave Smith

26 posts in 97 days


02-17-2017 02:50 PM

Topic tags/keywords: ash chipout planer

I am trying to dimension some old rough cut Ash and having quite a lot of chipout. The Ash is flat sawn and has many changes in grain direction. I have an old (1980’s) 6” Craftsman jointer and a 12.5” Delta bench top planer and problem seems pretty much equal on both. I have adjusted and sharpened the jointer knives and replaced and adjusted the planer knives. Have tried making shallower cuts and reducing feed rate, all to no avail. I don’t really want to purchase an expensive thickness sander. Does anyone have any suggestions?

-- Dave Smith - If our phones fall, we panic. If our friends fall, we laugh.


36 replies so far

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toolie

2061 posts in 2262 days


#1 posted 02-17-2017 06:16 PM

how wide are your workpieces?

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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Loren

8671 posts in 3281 days


#2 posted 02-17-2017 06:29 PM

Wet the boards with a damp sponge. That
can help.

Ash generally machines well. Do you have
some oak or similar around you could test
your machines with to make sure its really
not a machine problem?

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Dave Smith

26 posts in 97 days


#3 posted 02-17-2017 08:44 PM

Pieces are 6” to 10” wide. Have tried to wet the wood (a suggestion I read on Lumberjocks) and it helps a little. Yes, ran some red oak and pine with no problem. Also have a bunch of walnut, it chips some. Have not tried to wet the walnut though. Thanks for the replies by the way.

-- Dave Smith - If our phones fall, we panic. If our friends fall, we laugh.

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Loren

8671 posts in 3281 days


#4 posted 02-18-2017 01:05 AM

What kind of dust collection?

I’m grasping at straws but are you sure you’re
not looking at denting?

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Dave Smith

26 posts in 97 days


#5 posted 02-18-2017 01:34 AM

No dust collection. And it is definitely tearout where the grain direction changes. If I feed boards from opposite direction it just chips out the other way. I’m wondering if perhaps the wood is to dry. It has been stored in a farmer’s shed for 40 years. Thanks Loren, I’m open to even wild guesses at this point.

-- Dave Smith - If our phones fall, we panic. If our friends fall, we laugh.

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Andybb

143 posts in 237 days


#6 posted 02-18-2017 01:46 AM

/

-- Andy - Seattle, WA

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Loren

8671 posts in 3281 days


#7 posted 02-18-2017 01:53 AM

diagonal feeding can help a little.

Beyond that, the solution is to get a Makita
waterstone sharpener and put a 5 degree
back bevel on the knives.

A back bevel is not difficult to achieve with
hand planes, so, assessing the depth of
the tearout, one might want to turn to
a scraper plane or a standard bench plane
back-beveled 5 degrees, which makes the
effective cutting angle 50 degrees.

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Loren

8671 posts in 3281 days


#8 posted 02-18-2017 01:59 AM

Brian Burns is a member here. He generally
only comments regarding building guitars.
I learned about back beveling from his
pamphlet “Double Bevel Sharpening”.

Also, prior to the development of the
chipbreaker, woodworkers used planes
bedded at 45-60 degrees to compensate
for different wood species properties. An
argument can be made that one can add
5-10 degrees of effective angle to a hand
plane by fussing with the chipbreaker.

Back-beveling is fo-sho however.

https://youtu.be/WO_M95qDdAQ

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pintodeluxe

5210 posts in 2447 days


#9 posted 02-18-2017 02:06 AM

The old line of reasoning was to let those big straight knives cause all the tearout they want. A drum sander can clean up the mess later.

Since helical heads have saturated the hobbyist market, tearout seems to be a thing of the past for me.
I have only upgraded my planer so far, but since that’s the last tool to mill the wood, it works pretty good.

Tearout with straight knives used to really frustrate me with figured white oak. One pass would look fine, and the next would be riddled with tearout. That added hours of sanding to each project.
I don’t know if a helical head is on your radar this year, but it sure did the trick for me.

FYI, I tried planing the board on an angled bias, wetting the wood, adjusting depth of cut etc. etc. etc.
Perhaps they helped a little, but it didn’t really prevent me from getting tearout.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View Dave Smith's profile

Dave Smith

26 posts in 97 days


#10 posted 02-18-2017 02:19 AM

I have tried feeding diagonally with the planer, didn’t make much difference. I will try your back bevel idea. Do you know if they make helical cutter heads that would fit my machines or would new ones be necessary?

-- Dave Smith - If our phones fall, we panic. If our friends fall, we laugh.

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JBrow

1106 posts in 553 days


#11 posted 02-18-2017 02:50 PM

Dave Smith,

Here is a source for helical cutter heads. I did not see the Craftsman jointer listed, but the site claims that they will respond to email for machines not on their list.

https://www.holbren.com/byrd-shelix-jointer-heads/

All the classical methods of which I am aware for minimizing tear out have already been mentioned. Since you are willing to entertain wild guesses, I offer this one which I have not tried.

I suspect tear out occurs when the jointer/planer knife grabs the ends of fibers and pulls on the fibers until the fibers break leaving tear out. I wonder whether if the fibers were “glued together” if tear out could be minimized? If it would, then perhaps applying a clear finish to the rough boards (at least where the grain direction changes) could tame some of the tear out. After the finish is cured, perhaps the binders in the finish would help keep the fibers intact and bound together and thus reduce tear out.

Using a finish that will be applied to the project at the end would be best since some residual finish could be left on the boards. Of course any residual finish left after milling could affect glue-ups so avoiding areas that will be glued would be a good idea.

Since I am not sure whether this method will help and given that this method would delay the milling, trying it out on a single problematic board would be best.

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Lazyman

1147 posts in 1021 days


#12 posted 02-18-2017 03:12 PM



No dust collection. And it is definitely tearout where the grain direction changes. If I feed boards from opposite direction it just chips out the other way. I m wondering if perhaps the wood is to dry. It has been stored in a farmer s shed for 40 years. Thanks Loren, I m open to even wild guesses at this point.

- Dave Smith

When you say it chips out the other way, does it chip out in the same place or in a another place where the grain is running uphill relative to the new direction? Does making the lightest cut possible help at all?.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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Dave Smith

26 posts in 97 days


#13 posted 02-18-2017 03:56 PM

Thanks for the idea Jbrow. Since will be finishing with linseed oil I will try a small area. Like you say I will have to stay away from any glueup areas. Lazy, the chipping occurs in another place. Yes, where the grain runs uphill. Am working 3’ to 5’ boards and they all have at least 1 change in direction (some of the 5’ers have 3 or 4). Loren, I’m attempting to put a back bevel on the knives at present. Seems like a good idea. At this point I am resigned to a lot of scraping and sanding as I have already planed over half of the stock for this project. Guess I’ll have to cough up the money for a helical cutter before the next project with this Ash. Since a helical cutter is almost as much as I paid for the planer, maybe a whole new machine. Thank you all for the assistance. What a great community you have here!

-- Dave Smith - If our phones fall, we panic. If our friends fall, we laugh.

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Dave Smith

26 posts in 97 days


#14 posted 02-18-2017 04:05 PM

Yes, making cut’s less than 1/64” and very slow feed rate seems to help but not eliminate the chipping. But my planer does not have variable feed rate.

-- Dave Smith - If our phones fall, we panic. If our friends fall, we laugh.

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

1147 posts in 1021 days


#15 posted 02-19-2017 05:19 AM

Not to insult your intelligence but here are a couple of silly things I would check if I was having this problem:
1) You said that you sharpened you jointer knives. Are they sharp enough that they would cut your finger if you rubbed it down its length? Also what angle is the bevel sharpened at?
2) Planer knives were just replaced. Make sure you didn’t install them backwards? Same thing goes for the jointer blades.

The last time I had chipout problems it turned out to be that the jointer blades were set too high (or out feed was too low).

Maybe a picture of the chipout will help someone spot the problem.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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