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Forum topic by Peace posted 02-06-2017 02:28 AM 289 views 0 times favorited 3 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Peace

13 posts in 419 days


02-06-2017 02:28 AM

Topic tags/keywords: question

Contents list says “Proprietary blend of pigments and metal complex dyes for depth and clarity.” Does anyone know what “blend of pigments and metal complex dyes” means?” How is it different from normal[?] water based stain?


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wuddoc

233 posts in 3557 days


#1 posted 02-06-2017 02:59 AM

Pigments are opaque while dyes are translucent. Metal complex dyes are in most cases light fast. Pigments are larger in diameter while dyes are microscopic. Some woods are unable to “draw-in” pigment(s) as the wood pores are to small. Since dyes are microscopic they can be used to color those diffuse (small) porus woods. Water based stains also may use pigments and/or dyes.

Solvent based vehicles used to separate and float the pigments/dyes have less tendency to raise the grain during application.

This is a complex topic and usually covers several semesters if not years for chemists. It is best to discuss with your supplier your particular application. General Finishes has been around for decades and has great technical staff if your supplier is unable to answer your questions.

-- Wuddoc

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Peace

13 posts in 419 days


#2 posted 02-06-2017 12:18 PM

Thanks, wuddoc for your explanation. Actually, though you have given some info that I didn’t know, I am familiar with the basic difference between pigments and dyes. I have powdered anilide dyes, but because I couldn’t get the solution to distribute evenly, even with MinWax preconditioner, I abandoned using them. I hoped they would let the grain of wood like alder come thru. Then I discovered Charles Neil’s blotch control and have been trying it on birch. The dye seems to settle in the crevices, making them darker than the rest. I have strained the dye solution thru cheese cloth, but that hasn’t helped. Perhaps a liquid tint concentrate would work, but rather than purchase some I thought I would try a commercial water based stain.

Your information that metal complex dyes are usually light fast leads me to wonder if the metal complex is simply a light fast factor. Does it change the character of the dye in other ways? Because the General Finishes color I want is in the “Espresso ” variety, I wonder if I needn’t worry about it.

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Peace

13 posts in 419 days


#3 posted 02-06-2017 08:41 PM

An update on anilide dyes over Charles Neil Blotch Control: I followed Neil’s advice to do a third application of Blotch Control. I did, separating the 2nd and 3rd overnite. This morning I tried it and it worked! A caveat: you have to apply and wipe the dye solution FAST. The Blotch Control gums up within seconds. I tried evening out the application with a second swipe immediately, but it didn’t work. It would probably not work on a large area. I’m still considering the commercial water based stain.

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