LumberJocks

Sargent Planes - Type 2 #407 Refurb

  • Advertise with us

« back to Hand Tools forum

Forum topic by HorizontalMike posted 02-05-2017 06:17 PM 953 views 0 times favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7755 posts in 2909 days


02-05-2017 06:17 PM

Topic tags/keywords: sargent planes 407 type 2 refurb horseshoe lateral hand plane

Well, I finally came across a Type 2 Sargent #407 so I snatched it up. This was rare enough that, yes, I had to pay a pretty penny for it. It looked a bit beat up on fleaBay but had all the parts, so I dug out my electrolysis bath and went to work.



.
.

It originally looked like this:

.
.

While the metal was in the electrolysis bath, I worked on the Tote and Knob. I decided not to completely strip them, and instead buffed them up and added a couple coats of semi-gloss lacquer. Beautiful Rosewood! And both had never been broken, just some minor scratches!


.
.

The metal was now out of the bath, so I started cleaning them up and working on the brass, cap, blade and chipper:

.
.
. After taping the base and frog up, I sprayed the japanning on with Rust-Oleum Painter’s Touch 2X semi-gloss. I found this to be the most durable, and it can be built up rather thick and really matches that old asphaltum look.

.
. In the end, this refurb turned out well, all things considered. One very surprising thing about this plane, behind the mouth on the base, it was ground down very thin to allow for the frog to mount. AND BY THIN, I MEAN 21-THOUSANDTHS OF AN INCH THIN! That was behind the cutter, so that area never gets any trauma so that works, but wow is that thin!

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."


17 replies so far

View Don W's profile

Don W

18707 posts in 2562 days


#1 posted 02-05-2017 06:21 PM

That looks great Mike.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View TravisH's profile

TravisH

576 posts in 1930 days


#2 posted 02-05-2017 06:39 PM

That turned out very nice. Always good to see the labor pay off with a nice tool in the end.

View EugdOT's profile

EugdOT

225 posts in 550 days


#3 posted 02-05-2017 07:03 PM

Looks brand new off the assembly line, great work

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

10094 posts in 4047 days


#4 posted 02-05-2017 07:39 PM

COOL find…

COOL restoration…

COOL TOOL…

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

View Druid's profile

Druid

1754 posts in 2790 days


#5 posted 02-05-2017 07:58 PM

Hope it performs as nice as it looks.

-- John, British Columbia, Canada

View corelz125's profile

corelz125

390 posts in 971 days


#6 posted 02-05-2017 08:27 PM

Mike is there much of a difference in outcome with the electrolysis bath compared to using evapo rust?

View canadianchips's profile

canadianchips

2600 posts in 2992 days


#7 posted 02-05-2017 08:43 PM

Nice save.
I personally like sargent over stanley. They feel beefier to me !

-- "My mission in life - make everyone smile !"

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7755 posts in 2909 days


#8 posted 02-05-2017 08:44 PM

View Don W's profile

Don W

18707 posts in 2562 days


#9 posted 02-06-2017 01:03 PM

Mike, that’s a great article on electrolysis. Thanks for posting it.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View Ken90712's profile

Ken90712

17556 posts in 3184 days


#10 posted 02-06-2017 04:02 PM

Nice work Mike, fun project.

-- Ken, "Everyday above ground is a good day!"

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7755 posts in 2909 days


#11 posted 02-06-2017 06:36 PM

Thanks folks!

FWIW, I just posted on my website a Sargent Frog Comparison Type Study. I am of the opinion that the early Types 2 and 3 Frogs actually have a half-brother, AKA Type 2-1/2.

The Type 2-1/2, as I call it, is a hybrid between the Horseshoe with the Patent Date twisted lever, AND the Type 3 that has the folded lever and newer working end. I have at least three examples with the twisted Patent Date lever and the NEWER working end.

Any ideas Don? I will post to LJs once we come to an agreement on this. Thanks.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View Don W's profile

Don W

18707 posts in 2562 days


#12 posted 02-06-2017 10:09 PM

What a coincidence. I was looking at this this morning. I think it may have to do with size

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7755 posts in 2909 days


#13 posted 02-07-2017 12:47 PM



What a coincidence. I was looking at this this morning. I think it may have to do with size
- Don W

Don,
I’m not real sure. Just double-checked and I actually have four “T2-1/2” as I call them. One “Type 2-1/2” on the linked image is on a #5408, two are #5414, and one a #414. FWIW, one #5408 has round frog nuts and all the others have square frog nuts on the bases. If it were not for the #5408 sized frog/plane, I would totally agree with you on the frogs.

As far as the bases, my examples of the #5400 series planes (I think size DOES matter here):
  • #5408 and smaller have round frog nuts
  • Starting with #5410 and larger, all of mine have square frog nuts on their bases.
Checking my Sargent catalogs for lateral types, the illustrations show:
  • 1894 catalog shows Horseshoe laterals
  • 1910 catalog shows Folded lateral
  • 1922 catalog ” ” ”
  • 1928 catalog ” ” “

I guess the bottom line is that what I am calling a “Type 2-1/2” frog, occurred between or at the same time as both the Horseshoe and Folded laterals patented in 1891.

While trying NOT to completely re-write Heckel’s Type Study of planes, IMO using the “2-1/2” moniker keeps Heckel’s original Plane Types relevant, as shown on his ID and Value Guide, but still allows for this anomaly.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View Don W's profile

Don W

18707 posts in 2562 days


#14 posted 02-07-2017 05:48 PM

Mike, here is how I see it.
A type 1 is pre-lat.
A type 2 is a horseshoe with a twisted end.
A type 3 is twisted on one end and a simple folded to make contact with the iron on the other end.
A type 4 is folded in a U shape on one end and simple folded to make contact with the iron on the other end.

A type 2 or horseshoe has the has a rounded topped frog like this

A type 3 will have an ogee shaped frog like this

So I’m a little confused. I though you were referring to something different. The Ogee shape seems to be slightly different from size to size.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7755 posts in 2909 days


#15 posted 02-07-2017 06:22 PM

OK, good. That actually makes more sense, with both of Wright’s patents have the same twisted ‘1991 lever’ and different working ends. And then, the folded ‘U’ (Type4) lever came in with the advent of the VBM (in the 1910 Catalog). Got it! Geez, I was always thinking about the lever end and not the working end, hence my ongoing confusion.

SOooo, with all that being said, then all of the #5400 series would need to have Types 2 or 3 frogs on thin bodies. This works!

Just corrected my web page, just remember to refresh.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

showing 1 through 15 of 17 replies

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com