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Sawstop 3 phase/Single Phase Swap

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Forum topic by CRDunham posted 02-02-2017 06:46 PM 1519 views 0 times favorited 18 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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CRDunham

6 posts in 317 days


02-02-2017 06:46 PM

I’m new but there seem to be a lot of SawStop users here with nuts and bolts knowledge so I’m hoping you can help. I have an opportunity to purchase an ICS53480-52 but I don’t have 3 phase in my shop so I’d like to swap to a 5hp single phase CB104-071 motor. Unfortunately the $580 price tag for the motor and contactor cuts pretty deep into the savings of buying used. Are there any cheaper sources for parts or any market for the 3 phase gear that could make this more affordable? Thanks.


18 replies so far

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

4762 posts in 2332 days


#1 posted 02-02-2017 07:21 PM

The prices have went up substantially since I looked into this. But one thing to consider is switching to a 3HP motor instead of 5 (just guessing that would be cheaper). I wound up buying a 5 HP ICS, paying the extra $400. It’s the only part of the purchase I’m second guessing. I think the 5 HP is needed in a pro shop where the saw runs 6-7 hours a day cutting the tough stuff, but probably for a hobbyist doesn’t make sense. I’m OK with what I have, but life would be easier (no 30 amp outlets, etc.) had I went with the 3….and I would have saved some money.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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bonesbr549

1445 posts in 2906 days


#2 posted 02-02-2017 08:01 PM

If you don’t want to change you can either get a vfd big enough, but I’d talk to them first. Second choice is a rotary phase converter but that won’t be any cheaper.

You will love the ICS. I’ve had mine for several years now and the 5hp is great. Nice machine. I’d buy it again in a heartbeat.

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

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MrUnix

6010 posts in 2038 days


#3 posted 02-02-2017 08:14 PM

That is a 480v three phase saw, so you can’t just slap a VFD on there unless the motor can be wired for 240v as well. If it can, then you could use something like the TECO L510-203 to run it (roughly another $200).

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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KelleyCrafts

2680 posts in 578 days


#4 posted 02-02-2017 08:19 PM

I run a Phase-O-Matic on my PM72 with a built in Baldor 7.5HP motor. They run a couple hundred bucks. Would just have to match up specs to the Sawstop. Definitely a cheaper option over a new motor.

-- http://kelleycrafts.com/ - pen blanks - knife scales - turning tools

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bonesbr549

1445 posts in 2906 days


#5 posted 02-03-2017 03:18 AM


That is a 480v three phase saw, so you can t just slap a VFD on there unless the motor can be wired for 240v as well. If it can, then you could use something like the TECO L510-203 to run it (roughly another $200).

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

there are 3 flavors of that saw in 5hp there is a 3ph 230 a 480 and even a 600 v. You need to see what you got then decide. Challenge is the electronics in that thing it might be too sensitive to even try it.

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

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MrUnix

6010 posts in 2038 days


#6 posted 02-03-2017 03:35 AM

there are 3 flavors of that saw in 5hp there is a 3ph 230 a 480 and even a 600 v. You need to see what you got then decide. Challenge is the electronics in that thing it might be too sensitive to even try it.
- bonesbr549

Model number provided, ICS53480-52, indicates a three phase 480v machine. ICS53230 is a 230v machine, ICS53600 is a 600v machine. The only question is if the motor can be wired to run on 230v or not.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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alittleoff

447 posts in 1115 days


#7 posted 02-03-2017 04:40 AM

You can easily check the motor, just look at the name plate, if it’s not there look at how many wires are in the motor where the power hooks up. Should be 9 wires. Basically all 3 phase motors can be run on 3ph. Low voltage. 208 to 240 volts, by swapping the motor leads around. A vfd would be the way to go.
Gerald

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TopamaxSurvivor

18091 posts in 3514 days


#8 posted 02-03-2017 08:54 AM

I found a manual online. The wiring and circuitry is not very clear. I would be concerned about the electronics operating properly if a VFD is used to generate 3 phase to feed the saw.

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

4762 posts in 2332 days


#9 posted 02-03-2017 12:07 PM



I found a manual online. The wiring and circuitry is not very clear. I would be concerned about the electronics operating properly if a VFD is used to generate 3 phase to feed the saw.

- TopamaxSurvivor

A very valid concern, if you plan to do that check with SS first (as suggested somewhere above).

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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Carloz

981 posts in 430 days


#10 posted 02-03-2017 01:35 PM

Any 3 phase motor can be run off a single phase with a starting (and optionally run) capacitor albeit with reduced power. You would need to figure out how to feed the electronics, which probably is fed from a single phase anyway.
The problem is getting the required voltage if it is not 220v. You would need a transformer that costs approximately as much as a new motor.

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bonesbr549

1445 posts in 2906 days


#11 posted 02-03-2017 01:45 PM


Any 3 phase motor can be run off a single phase with a starting (and optionally run) capacitor albeit with reduced power. You would need to figure out how to feed the electronics, which probably is fed from a single phase anyway.
The problem is getting the required voltage if it is not 220v. You would need a transformer that costs approximately as much as a new motor.

- Carloz

I think the concern is the safety technology and the impacts doing vfd or RFC to try to accomodate the 3 phase. He does not mention the savings by getting it used, but if the motor change or added cost of the upgrade is close to new, might be best just to bight the bullet. I know I gagged at mine when I got and saved for several years before I could jump but have never regretted the ICS.

Cheers!

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

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CRDunham

6 posts in 317 days


#12 posted 02-03-2017 02:27 PM

Thanks for all the great input! I really don’t want to do anything to this saw that might compromise the safety since half the reason I’m looking at a new saw is that my daughter is getting to a good age to learn woodworking. It’s one thing to risk my own fingers, hers are another matter entirely. I had planned on and was saving up for the 3hp professional but this industrial came along. Maybe if it sits for a bit I can get him to shave off a couple more bucks and afford the conversion. Again, thanks for the advice.

-Chris

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Carloz

981 posts in 430 days


#13 posted 02-03-2017 02:35 PM

I did not suggest to use vfd or RFC.
The only thing needed to run a 3 phase motor from a single phase is a capacitor, which does not affect the electronics.

Any 3 phase motor can be run off a single phase with a starting (and optionally run) capacitor albeit with reduced power. You would need to figure out how to feed the electronics, which probably is fed from a single phase anyway.
The problem is getting the required voltage if it is not 220v. You would need a transformer that costs approximately as much as a new motor.

- Carloz

I think the concern is the safety technology and the impacts doing vfd or RFC to try to accomodate the 3 phase. He does not mention the savings by getting it used, but if the motor change or added cost of the upgrade is close to new, might be best just to bight the bullet. I know I gagged at mine when I got and saved for several years before I could jump but have never regretted the ICS.

Cheers!

- bonesbr549


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CRDunham

6 posts in 317 days


#14 posted 05-24-2017 10:13 PM

Hey All-

Thanks so much for the great and abundant information. I did end up getting the ICS, and the motor swap was really easy, probably 3 hours including wiring the cord and swapping the wall outlet. Motor and controller box ended up being about $640 shipped to my local Woodcraft. Sawstop contacted me personally to check what I was doing and to make sure I would have what I needed. They sent all of the updated electrical safety stickers and a new serial badge. I called their tech department twice during the swap and didn’t even get to the end of the robot answering message before I had a technician on the line. Really could not have gone better. If you know anyone who needs a 5hp 3ph 460vac motor and control box, send them my way. Thanks.

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Fred Hargis

4762 posts in 2332 days


#15 posted 05-25-2017 11:45 AM

Did you happen to check if the 3 HP motor would have been less? Just curious. BTW, I talked to SS about this a couple of times when I was in the market and they could not have been more helpful. Good on them for supplying new stickers….nice CS!

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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