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Forum topic by Claymation posted 09-12-2010 02:44 AM 1642 views 1 time favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Claymation

165 posts in 2283 days


09-12-2010 02:44 AM

Topic tags/keywords: tip dust vacuum ventilation

I need a crash course in the installation of a whole shop dust collection system. Is there a site out there that anyone can recommend? I’ve got a Jet DC 1100 that I would like to pipe in and wire up to come on and go off when the tools are fired up. I need info on how to address the elimination of static electricity. If there is such a thing as an automatic gate that I can associate with the power up of a tool, I’d like info on that as well. In all, I have about a dozen stations that I would like to address. All recommendations are welcome. Collector location, tool location, pipe to use, gates to use, pipe run calculations… ANY help on researching this chore would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, gang!

-- Clay (Master Kindler) ~ Central VA


12 replies so far

View Gregn's profile

Gregn

1642 posts in 2451 days


#1 posted 09-12-2010 03:01 PM

This should give you a place to start.
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/CyclonePlan.cfm

-- I don't make mistakes, I have great learning lessons, Greg

View ND2ELK's profile

ND2ELK

13495 posts in 3241 days


#2 posted 09-12-2010 03:24 PM

If you go to my blog ‘Dust Collection In’, it might give you some ideas on installation of duct work, I bought my cyclone and most of my duct work from Penn State Industries. Fell free to ask me any questions.

God Bless
tom

-- Mc Bridge Cabinets, Iowa

View richgreer's profile

richgreer

4541 posts in 2542 days


#3 posted 09-12-2010 03:25 PM

Before you start building your system, check out the Dust Right system that Rockler offers.

http://www.rockler.com/search_results.cfm?srch=usr&filter=dust+right&submit.x=0&submit.y=0

It will save you money and hassle and I think it is a great system for the small to mid-sized shop.

-- Rich, Cedar Rapids, IA - I'm a woodworker. I don't create beauty, I reveal it.

View helluvawreck's profile (online now)

helluvawreck

23209 posts in 2334 days


#4 posted 09-12-2010 03:49 PM

Every dust system that we have ever had we did ourselves and in my woodworking career we have probably been in 10 different buildings and have grown over the years. In our present plant we probably have around 6 different systems with the largest two being 75 HP each. When I first left engineering school the first engineering project that I did was to design a system for for a 6000 sq ft machine room with about 10 different machines in it. I went to the GA Tech bookstore and bought a book called Plant Ventilating Systems, if I remember correctly. I read the book and meticulously designed the system. This one was the first for us and we did farm it out. All the rest we have done ourselves. That first system worked great. However, since then we have done very little design work but have just used a little common sense and gut feeling.

I take the size of the blower and measure the opening and determine the sq ft of the inlet. The area of all of the openings in that shop should equal the inlet area of the blower in an ideal situation. You don’t want to run a bunch of different pipes to the blower but you want to run main branches. In a small shop you could come across the center with the main branch for example. Then you could branch out from this main branch with other sub branches. Ideally you want to enter a branch at 30 degrees but 45 degrees works just about as well. You do this with a fitting that is called a lateral T. What this does is puts a smaller branch out to the side and then reduces the diameter of the pipe that continues on strait so it’s working towards keeping the cross sectional are the same in the system so that all of the air is flowing at about the same speed. You can usually add a 60 degree elbow out the side of the lateral T and then you would be going in a perpendicular direction from the main branch then you could drop down toward two machines that are close to each other and when you get near the machines you could jump out with a fitting that is called a pair of pants or a y. When you end up you are going to end up with something that will resemble the limbs on a tree where the branches get smaller. Now this is an over simplified way of designing a dust system because the calculations can get involved because every pipe cause friction so even the lengths of the pipe come into play. But using the common sense approach we have never ended up with a serious problem.

You should go to the site that Greg suggested and you will probably get some good ideas. Nordfab makes some excellent snap together blow pipe fittingss and you can get it from Mcmaster Carr#

My main point is to say don’t be afraid to build your own dust system ; just try to balance your cross sectional areas and don’t enter main pipes at 90 degrees but go in with an elbow and a lateral T and come in with an angle that creates less turbulence. When you come out of side of a pipe but also continue strait ahead the diameter of the pipe will reduce in size to keep the areas of the pipe balanced.

Obviously, you do need to read up on all of the safety precautions such as static electricity, etc. before you build your system.

This is not the scientific way to do it but it usually works quite well.

-- If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau

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Claymation

165 posts in 2283 days


#5 posted 09-12-2010 04:07 PM

helluvawreck, Thanks for taking the time to provide me with some great info. I’m spending quite a bit of time reading up! Your tips will help.

-- Clay (Master Kindler) ~ Central VA

View Rick's profile

Rick

8287 posts in 2500 days


#6 posted 09-13-2010 02:03 AM

Clay:

I Googled your Post. There are hundreds of APPARENT solutions and Installation Tips on there. I found this YouTube Video that might or might not address some of your concerns. However there are Dozens of other videos on the right side that might be more suitable to your needs. Time consuming, but might be worth the effort if you have the time. You can go directly to YouTube by clicking anywhere on this Video.

Hope this might be of some assistance.

Rick

-- Hope Everyone Is Doing Well! .... Best Regards: Rick

View Claymation's profile

Claymation

165 posts in 2283 days


#7 posted 09-13-2010 02:45 AM

Rick, at this point it all helps. Even if I’ve heard it before, I want the refresher before I start running duct. I think right now I need to bone up on the safety stuff first… you know, the stuff you can’t see, but can kill you (electricity)! I need some info on how to mitigate the static electricity properly. Thanks for your assistance.

-- Clay (Master Kindler) ~ Central VA

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8523 posts in 3116 days


#8 posted 09-13-2010 03:09 AM

position your DC as close as you can to your big chip makes – jointer/ planer … next the TS, routertable/shapers.. next bandsaw… next dust makers (sanders). try to locate machines and DC to make the runs as short as possible. 1 foot to the left may not be a nuisance for you when using a machine, but it’ll make a big difference for the DC trying to pull chips from 1 foot less of a run.

links above are good places to start.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View jusfine's profile

jusfine

2405 posts in 2393 days


#9 posted 09-13-2010 04:45 AM

Rick, this was an interesting video. Thanks!

I used the same LV blast gates, and had the same issue with connecting the short flanges to the hose (the clamps don’t have enough room to grab onto).
Also used the same Lee Valley clamps and hose, and used metal spiral pipe.

-- Randy "You are judged as much by the questions you ask as the answers you give..."

View Claymation's profile

Claymation

165 posts in 2283 days


#10 posted 09-17-2010 05:30 PM

Unless I can find a better deal, I guess I’ll just be purchasing the ducting from the online Rockler catalog. Anyone have a better supplier for spiral pipe and fittings?

-- Clay (Master Kindler) ~ Central VA

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8523 posts in 3116 days


#11 posted 09-17-2010 05:48 PM

Oneida:
http://store.oneida-air.com/ductwork.aspx

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View brtech's profile

brtech

906 posts in 2390 days


#12 posted 09-20-2010 03:41 PM

Couple of things:
a) Get a Wynn filter for your DC. You really do want .5 micron filter
b) Put a Thein baffle in it to assist separation of larger particles
c) There are lots of less expensive sources for DC parts. One of them is www.outlettools.com. Woodcraft usually beats them on price also
d) Most LJs use PVC pipe and basic fittings from the big box stores. You can’t find 5”, which sometimes is just what you want for the main feed line. You can use metal HVAC snaplock, but you want the heavier gauge
e) Don’t worry about static electricity. A couple of people have studied this, and it’s just not a real problem, even in plastic pipe
f) Don’t make any 90 degree turns, always use a pair of 45s with a straight section between
g) These blast gates are nice: http://www.blastgateco.com/Blast-Gates.htm

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