LumberJocks

Call all veneer and restoration specialist

  • Advertise with us

« back to Woodworking Skill Share forum

Forum topic by Bearpaw posted 01-27-2017 02:22 PM 1081 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View Bearpaw's profile

Bearpaw

253 posts in 3554 days


01-27-2017 02:22 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question

Attached are pictures of a cabinet that a friend bought at a yard sale. The veneer looks good but dry and delaminating.

If he can remove it in one piece, what should be done to restore it? I suggested covering it with a damp towel or steam it with an iron, but no pressure on it. Later to add a little weight to flatten.

To reattach I suggested a mixture of yellow glue and water applied to both pieces. Let the glue dry and then apply using an iron on medium heat to activate the glue.

Does anyone have a better suggestion?

-- "When we build, let us think we build forever." John Ruskin


16 replies so far

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

8026 posts in 2410 days


#1 posted 01-27-2017 02:28 PM

Hit the:

Insert this image button please.

View EricTwice's profile

EricTwice

228 posts in 367 days


#2 posted 01-27-2017 02:30 PM

Your picture didn’t come out.

I would prefer a press over ironing, but both should work. Cawls over a platen will work too if you can’t get it in a press. It’s difficult to tell if I don’t see it.

-- nice recovery, They should pay extra for that mistake, Eric E.

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

8287 posts in 1320 days


#3 posted 01-27-2017 02:32 PM

Once yellow glue dries it’s done. There’s no way to reactivate it. I think you’re thinking of hide glue. Could be wrong.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View Bearpaw's profile

Bearpaw

253 posts in 3554 days


#4 posted 01-27-2017 02:33 PM

Sorry, I left out the pictures.

-- "When we build, let us think we build forever." John Ruskin

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

8287 posts in 1320 days


#5 posted 01-27-2017 02:39 PM

You could also try messaging LJ Shipwright. He does a lot of veneering.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View mahdee's profile

mahdee

3828 posts in 1601 days


#6 posted 01-27-2017 08:07 PM

If you can spray some contact cement (I’ve seen the cans in HD) in there, then it should be easy to put it back in its place.

-- earthartandfoods.com

View EricTwice's profile

EricTwice

228 posts in 367 days


#7 posted 01-27-2017 11:01 PM

“Once yellow glue dries it’s done. There’s no way to reactivate it.”

please read http://www.webherrera.com/blog/2009/04/19/titebonds-franklin-internationals-iron-on-instructions/9/

It appears to be on a door that ca be easily removed from the cabinet. I would not try to remove the veneer. You can work glue under it.

I would cut a platen that would fit around the block attached to the face. It should be heavy and flat. 3/4 MDF would be good. Set the door on my bench and work glue with a long artist’s brush under the loose veneer. Put down a sheet of waxed paper between the veneer and the platen make sure everything is stable and then stack about 10 50lb tractor weights on top. leave it that way for about a day.

If you don’t have tractor weights anything really heavy will do. If you have to clamp it make a second platen for the back and use lots of clamps. I have improvised a press with a post from the roof and a car jack. (don’t laugh, it worked)
You can use a vacuum press if one is available.

-- nice recovery, They should pay extra for that mistake, Eric E.

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

7779 posts in 2632 days


#8 posted 01-28-2017 03:04 AM

The piece appears to be pre-pva glue which is a good thing. You are almost certainly dealing with hide glue that has been seriously abused to produce this failure.
You should be able to remove the existing pieces by applying heat and moisture together. Once removed, flatten the veneer by moistening it and pressing it. Then re-glue it with either hot hide glue or liquid hide glue. I would recommend Old Brown Glue. Press the pieces in a veneer press or with cauls and clamps. You won’t need to remove the old glue as the new glue will re- hydrate it.
You should be able to do this without damaging the existing patina and by staying away from “modern” glues you will maintain whatever antique value the piece has.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fibreglass trees. http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

1172 posts in 1632 days


#9 posted 01-28-2017 04:10 AM

Good luck getting it glued back on the door straight.
Looks like a basket case to me.

Aj

-- Aj

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

8287 posts in 1320 days


#10 posted 01-28-2017 04:11 AM

Learn something new everyday. First I’ve ever heard of that. I just don’t know of any situation where I would do that over hide glue.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

7779 posts in 2632 days


#11 posted 01-28-2017 04:32 AM

It is quite repairable and not difficult from looking at the photos….... but you have to have an understanding of the original construction and the original processes.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fibreglass trees. http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

View bob101's profile

bob101

309 posts in 3284 days


#12 posted 01-28-2017 04:53 AM

The response saying dried carpenters glue can’t be used couldn’t be further from the truth. I use this method all the time for veneerimg. It’s easy and requires just an iron and glue and time.

-- rob, ont,canada

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

8287 posts in 1320 days


#13 posted 01-28-2017 05:15 AM

Sorry. Wasn’t aware. I just goes counter to every thing I’ve ever heard of pva glue. IE: non reversible.

If you have to lift a panel it can go right back down with heat and moisture?

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

7779 posts in 2632 days


#14 posted 01-28-2017 02:44 PM

I am aware that pva glue can be applied, allowed to dry and then veneer can be “pressed” by applying heat.
I have never heard of pva glue being “reversible” in the way that hide glue is and as far as I know this piece would be difficult to remove undamaged if it had been glued with pva.
I also believe that all old pva glue must be removed in order to get new pva to adhere.

Which comment says that “dried carpenter’s glue can’t be used”?

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fibreglass trees. http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

View Lazyman's profile (online now)

Lazyman

1499 posts in 1221 days


#15 posted 01-28-2017 03:03 PM

My guess is that this piece sat in a damp attic or basement for a very long time. Hide glue is the way to go. Most people who restore antiques wouldn’t use anything else. My last big project which included some complex veneer application was done with hot hide glue and it is amazing stuff. Follow shipwright’s (he is the resident expert on hide glue, especially related to veneer) suggestion of using moisture and heat to remove the old veneer and reapply with Old Brown Glue. You can use a clothes iron and wet rags. Just take your time and work slowly across the surface. As the glue releases just use a knife to gently separate the veneer. You want the iron just hot enough so you can still touch it with a dry hand and not burn yourself. If you research veneer restoration, you will find that is how the experts do it. The nice thing about hide glue is that it is 100% reversible 10 minutes or 200 years after it sets. Can’t do that with PVA wood glue. Also, hide glue sticks to itself so you do not have to remove any glue residue before reapplication, though a smooth surface will make life easier. You can actually clean the old hide glue off or just smooth it out with hot water and a scotch bright abrasive pad. It runs counter to what most of us think about when working with wood but warm water is your friend when working with veneer and hide glue. Every inch of the large mirror project I posted recently was cleaned with warm water before applying a finish.

One challenge may be dealing with that raised panel where the nob is. Your edge-on photo is too blurry to tell but surely they did not glue that panel to the surface of the veneer. The way the veneer near the panel is still flat makes me wonder but hopefully it just helped prevent moisture from working into the veneer there. Assuming that panel is not glued to the veneer, it may actually help keep the veneer aligned was you clamp it back down.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

showing 1 through 15 of 16 replies

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com