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Forum topic by saltfly posted 01-18-2017 08:48 PM 1290 views 0 times favorited 22 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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saltfly

81 posts in 339 days


01-18-2017 08:48 PM

I have a plane that was given to me years ago. When I took it to a old wood boat builder, who I use to pester the H out of, when getting new to me hand tools. Since He knew tools inside out and backwards. He told me. It was a Bailey definite. If it is I don’t know. He showed me 3 he had. He was 85 then and told me he kept them for his boys to use, they were 65 and 68. And he still wouldn’t let them use his personal planes. But that isn’t the reason for this post, the plane its self is. He told me they were a cheaper plane Bailey made. They sold, back when Bailey made them, for around $3. Now to why this post, it has a stamped metal frog. Now some think this makes a plane a cheap plane that you should just throw away. Well I learned on that day, it may not sell for much but it can be made to work great. So I thought I would share the info. That old timer showed me. First he told me to adjust it. Then make a cut. Well I tried. He then told me to take a good look at the plane. We found chips in between the chip breaker and the iron. Also I saw the iron bevel was up and their was a space between the back side of the iron and the mouth. So we then took it apart and went to work on it. First we filled the radius off from the vertical rib, between the frog mounting surface. Then flattened the mounting face for the frog. Both need that. We then flattened the frog mounting flanges them self’s. Next we flattened the iron and chip bracker mounting face of the frog. We then adjusted the the space between the frog mounting flanges. After taking the chip bracker and iron apart. Cleaned the iron and made just a few passes of the bevel on his hard oil stone. Then ran the chip bracker mating surface on the chip bracker to flatten it. After all of this, we put it back together, adjusted the frog so the iron set on the bevel in the mouth. We then adjust the iron to make a cut. Made a few passes to where it need to be to cut. Well did that plane cut. He told me to run the iron once in a while on my hard oil stone to keep it cut, and it will serve me me well for a long time. Well that was 40 years ago and that plane is still used by me and still cuts just as good as my Stanley #4, and I should mention its the same size as the #3. Now any one that has a plane with a stamped frog and is ashamed to tell anyone. Or you can’t afford a plan in a size you would like to have and found a plane with a stamped frog. Don’t be afraid to buy it and use it, after you do some work on it. I know their will be some that will disagree with me, and that’s OK. Because I’m old and don’t care. That’s the way us old farts are. The biggest thing you find out about getting old, is you can say things you couldn’t get away with when you were young.


22 replies so far

View Johnny7's profile

Johnny7

327 posts in 929 days


#1 posted 01-19-2017 07:54 AM

It’s very hard to tell from your post, but are you trying to say that the plane with the stamped steel frog is a Stanley?

If so, I have to tell you, I know of no such Stanley plane.

Aside from the Stanley/Bailey planes, there have been several low to lower-end Stanley lines over the decades, (Handyman, Defiance, Four Square, etc.) but those that did not have true, separate cast iron frogs, had vestigial cast pedestals.

View Don W's profile

Don W

18523 posts in 2407 days


#2 posted 01-19-2017 01:44 PM



They sold, back when Bailey made them, for around $3. Now to why this post, it has a stamped metal frog.

A Bailey made stamped metal frog?

And the rule is “Pictures or it didn’t happen”

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

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dbray45

3295 posts in 2616 days


#3 posted 01-19-2017 02:02 PM

Pictures are best.

-- David in Damascus, MD

View saltfly's profile

saltfly

81 posts in 339 days


#4 posted 01-19-2017 03:26 PM

Now where to start. No I didn’t say it was a Stanley. What I said, and I thought it was clear,

“ he told me it was a Bailey Definite. If it is I don’t Know. He had 3.” I also said “ he told me they were a cheaper planes built by Bailey.”

now you said they made a defiance, OK I’m no expert on old plane names, and don’t want to be, but I do know the plane makers from those days, made a number of planes for some companies with no names or that companies name. Also I said

“Now to why this post”

Then I went on to say these are cheap planes. But you can make them work well. I then explained how he showed me what I needed to do. I also said this was 40 years ago. I don’t know about you, but I’m old and can’t remember what I did yesterday let alone 40 years ago.

The problem I have had over the many years of my life and with every hobby I’ve ever been involved with, is people that can afford higher end items, giving the impression to young people and to those that can’t afford the higher end stuff. They are made to feel that what they have won’t work. This is ever so true in another hobby of mine, which is fly fishing. Their are so many people that make young people feel their not true fly fishers, unless they buy only high end equipment.
I taught fly fishing for 45 years and have been fly fishing for 60. So I dislike people that make others feel Their really not part of the sport. I have made a number of the high enders look bad, by out casting them and out fishing them with so called cheap equipment.

I was really hoping to just talk tools here on this site. But since I’m still learning to navigate here. I really didn’t want to get into a spiting contest over semantics. But was hoping to just let those who have cheap planes know how to tune them to make them a good usable tool. I know for a fact, that there are a few young people out there, that have not signed up here or on other sites, for that very reason. I joined here after talking to one at the local wood shop I use. He told me about reading things here that has help him. I ask does he post. He said “no, I’m not in their class.” Now is that what people want? Or do people want to help others? I really don’t care what the name of the plane I have is. But I know it works really good and I still use it.

Now for pictures. Man I love picture more then most. But since I’m still learning how to do things here, I haven’t learned how to post pictures yet. But when I do, you can be sure I will post them.

Now I have to go take a nap. I haven’t though about or typed so much in a long time. Now my brain hurts from thinking to much. You see I still have one hell of a sense of humor.

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Smitty_Cabinetshop

14857 posts in 2457 days


#5 posted 01-19-2017 03:43 PM

Saltfly, talk away man! There are a bunch of folks interested in talking tools here, we do it quite a bit. It’s not a semantics things, really, when folks wonder what kind of plane it is you’ve made to work so well… the Stanley / Bailey lines of planes are well-documented, so people want to apply that learning to what you’re saying. And there isn’t an example I’ve heard of where Bailey -or Stanley- made a steel-frogged bench plane. Stanley did make steel planes, notably the S4, S5 and S18, be even those bench planes had iron frogs; the S18 is a block plane, of course (no frog).

If you’ve got a smartphone, posting pics is very easy and you’ll be able to learn quickly. Hope to see your plane soon!

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive --

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bandit571

18637 posts in 2522 days


#6 posted 01-19-2017 04:02 PM

Better watch out, there are some here who will follow you around…..or just “block” you….DAMHIKT….LOL.

The biggest problem I found with the steel frogs? Is where the bolt for the lever cap screws into the frog…..bolts will go in, a bit too loosely, and then allow other parts to move when you rather they did not. It almost looks like a steel insert had been installed in the frog, to allow the bolt to be used. The insert itself tends to wiggle a bit.

Flatten the soles, sharpen the irons, and they can be made to work. Have had many of them come through my shop over the years. Frog can be removed, it’s face flattened for a better mate to the iron….but is a royal PITA to get the frog installed back on the base. A magnetic tipped screwdriver is a must.

Had one come through, not long ago..

And another, this one was sold as a “Worth” brand by PEXTO. Did fairly well on Sycamore…..

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View saltfly's profile

saltfly

81 posts in 339 days


#7 posted 01-19-2017 04:36 PM

Smitty you sound like my kind of guy. No me and smart phones don’t see eye to eye. (My wife gives me what for, because I run my boat 30 miles off shore and she can’t get me when out their. that’s the point theirs no cell towers out there and I can be left alone to just fish). I do get on other sites, a few boat restoring sites and fishing sites. What I do there is put photos from my camera into photo bucket and then copy them to my posts. Don’t know if that will work here but I will try.

Bandit I’m an old Airborne Ranger, spent 3 years in southeast Asia with a Sp Ops detachment 1966 threw 1969, and still teach Martial Arts. I learned when to fight and when to run. Right now, I don’t see a reason to run. But thank you for the heads up. I know their will always be a few. “Wink”

And johnny7 please don’t take what I said personal, but you came across a little strong in your comments.

Also I noticed a number of vets here some use their unit patches, 101st airborne and a SF patch as well as a master Sargent, I’m sure there are many others. So thank you all for your service.

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Johnny7

327 posts in 929 days


#8 posted 01-19-2017 05:08 PM


And johnny7 please don t take what I said personal, but you came across a little strong in your comments.

- saltfly

I just re-read my post—I don’t see anything I wrote that could possibly be construed as “strong”.
I’m afraid it’s you who is taking things personally.

View Don W's profile

Don W

18523 posts in 2407 days


#9 posted 01-19-2017 08:01 PM

Your argument for cheap planes is a common one here. You’ll find thread after thread about what’s needed. Part of the problem lately has been the attitude that it matters.

My philosophy is if you can buy expensive tools and can afford expensive tools then buy expensive tools, but agree wholeheartedly almost any plane cane be made to work.

Most of us agree with your philosophy, but it tends to start disagreements.

And it’s OK if you don’t care what brand of plane you have, but being a bit of a tool history nut, when I hear of a plane I haven’t seen before (like a steel frogged Bailey) I start to ask questions. Its out of pure interest, not disrespect.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View saltfly's profile

saltfly

81 posts in 339 days


#10 posted 01-22-2017 08:13 PM

Well I got some pics uploaded. So here are a few of the plane I was talking about. I was given this plane around the end 1971 or the beginning of 1972. Right after I got my discharge from the army. My friend thought wood working would help me settle back to a more normal life. Hell its now 45 years later and I’m still trying to figure out what a normal life is. Theirs nothing normal about this world today.
Next to my #4
[URL=http://s782.photobucket.com/user/saltfly/media/wood%20working/DSCN0881zpsa65mtfk3.jpg.html][IMG]http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/saltfly/wood%20working/DSCN0881_zpsa65mtfk3.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

the sole

[URL=http://s782.photobucket.com/user/saltfly/media/wood%20working/DSCN0885zps8uujcywo.jpg.html][IMG]http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/saltfly/wood%20working/DSCN0885_zps8uujcywo.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

All the parts

[URL=http://s782.photobucket.com/user/saltfly/media/wood%20working/DSCN0884zpski3tuj53.jpg.html][IMG]http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/saltfly/wood%20working/DSCN0884_zpski3tuj53.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s782.photobucket.com/user/saltfly/media/wood%20working/DSCN0883zpsixjrcczj.jpg.html][IMG]http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/saltfly/wood%20working/DSCN0883_zpsixjrcczj.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

ok now how do I get them to show up? is their something I have to turn on off?

View poopiekat's profile

poopiekat

4320 posts in 3573 days


#11 posted 01-22-2017 10:21 PM

I’m sure this whole thread originated as a result of some comments I made in the ”4Most” planes thread on Jan 18th.

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/199754

I’m sure that my opinion/advice to another member about Stamped steel frogs is what triggered ‘saltfly’ to start this discussion. Hey, if you got one and it works for you, all’s well. I won’t use them, except for parts.

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

View saltfly's profile

saltfly

81 posts in 339 days


#12 posted 01-22-2017 10:26 PM

Well lets try this again.
Well I was going to but they still didn’t take.

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saltfly

81 posts in 339 days


#13 posted 01-22-2017 10:41 PM

Well poopiekat the post your are talking about had nothing to do with my post. I didn’t read that thread. Sorry if you think I started this thread because of your post. I’m new here and just want to start a thread about a plane I had restored. I thought I could get to know some of the people here. I had no intention of stepping on any toes. Wood working is a basic hobby. Their are a number of sub hobbies in it. Hand tools, power tools. hand planes etc etc etc. I found out on here it is very easy to be miss under stood when talking about some thing that bleeds over into other sub hobbies. but its no big deal. I was just trying to post some pictures because some asked to see some. But as you can see, I’m having a few problems getting them to show up.

View poopiekat's profile

poopiekat

4320 posts in 3573 days


#14 posted 01-22-2017 11:08 PM

Okay, thanks for the clarification. You might agree, the timing was coincidental!

Now, the best way to post pics is to click on [img] the tan button above when you are making a new post. Click ‘browse’ to look through the photos in your computer’s pictures folder, select a photo and then click on #2 [Insert this image] then post your reply. Lot of us academics here, we really want to see this plane you’re talking about.

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

View saltfly's profile

saltfly

81 posts in 339 days


#15 posted 01-22-2017 11:39 PM

thanks poopiekat I’ll give it one more try.

next to my #4

Sole

parts

You guys have got me wondering now as well. It was 40 years ago, when I was told what he said it was. I wouldn’t have known the difference then as well as now. And the true is I didn’t care then it worked well for me then and still does.

Ok now that’s better thanks.

showing 1 through 15 of 22 replies

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